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#126822 Steklo X4 [FM14]
Piginho
Did you solve problems you were having trying to get a sidebar version to work?
#112472 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
I never quoted from 16 to 20, in fact I just said if you lifted the values to 20, but didn't say from what level. I did suggest a full back though. So let's suppose he has 20 for fullback, 10 for wingback and 5 for winger, but already has decent attributes for attacking fullback. Change his wingback position from 10 to 20 and winger from 5 to, say 15 and he will be better when played in what now are more natural positions. Difference may not be great, but it will be a difference. It will only have a minor effect elsewhere in stats as SI don't give a very high weighting to position as a proportion of CA/PA.
Of more concern will be when attribute changes are allowed and people start giving average strikers 20 for composure, finishing and anticipation and dropping unimportant stats to compensate to stay within CA/PA limits. If CA/PA can also be edited it gets much worse potentially.
As a rule I don't use other peoples databases and I can't comment on LFCMarshall's, other than to say I once downloaded one of his, but didn't use it. His was the only one that came to mind, perhaps due to it's popularity. If his databases are as shoddy as you suggest, yet probably the most popular, you support my point about the majority not being able to make objective judgments.
If it's only shoddy in your opinion, it's popularity might indicate that it's quite good and supports my suggestion that if the tool that's being discussed in this thread is also any good, it too will prove popular.
#112456 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
Now you're thinking outside the box.
Do you know where we can find some to help with this?
To be fair, you've accepted and acknowledged the drawbacks with what you're offering, which is all I wanted to see, because people often get so excited with these sorts of things that they fail to see that it's not all rosy. I think you're system has great potential for solo play and will enhance the experience for a lot of players. I don't think it has relevance for tournament play or challenges, as these rely on everyone being on and having knowledge of the same database for it to be fair.
Particularly when you introduce attribute changes, you'll have to think carefully how to address the issues that you recognise, that is if you can't actually find any real Vulcans.
The proof of the pudding will be how many people adopt your system and use your website to do their updates. Will be interesting to see how it compares, for example, with the afore-mentioned LFCMarshall in terms of download levels, once it's fully taken off.
Thank you for your efforts to make the FM experience more enjoyable. I wish you well and hope you can address the potential issues created by opinion based assessments in a better way than is done elsewhere. If you achieve this successfully I will be one of many users of your system.
#112455 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
Ah, OK, so I'd accept all but positions, as the other elements are matters of fact rather than opinion, assuming that they are reported accurately. I can leave positions (and later attributes) unticked as these are matters of opinion, but it's not done on individual player basis, so I would only leave player changes ticked, if on balance I thought more were right than wrong and any I think are wrong I can report to you to see if you agree.
"but I've got to trust those that do change the stats that they believe they are adjusting them FAIRLY"
That's the real big problem that I perceive with what you are doing. The first person in China who watches his local team and is a big fan of the 16 year old I mentioned before, thinks he's the best thing since sliced Messi and submits some, in his opinion, fair adjustments to this player. You're none the wiser, so you think, OK, he must know the player better than me, so yep, I'll approve the change. What you didn't know is it's his dad that's submitted the changes
Next thing you know; someone else, or maybe several people, who've also watched this lad, say "no, he's rubbish, or certainly nothing like as good as has been suggested." So now you've got someone, or more, suggesting another change and again, you're none the wiser, so what do you do? You've already accepted the change, but a change back involves an appeal to you and as you've already said, you'd have little knowledge to base your decision on.
Hence my suggestion that player's abilities could yoyo up and down, depending on which person's "fair" assessment you accept.
#112445 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
I'd be in even more trouble in my Suarez example if you did this. He's got so many haters that he'd end up League 1 quality.
This is good. It's making you think what problems you'll get and how to make your system better, but no, this isn't the answer. If you're going to do statistical analysis on opinions, you might want to ignore the extreme ends of the bell curve. That said, if you've a player like Suarez that divides opinion so much, no kind of statistical analysis will give him a fair set of stats. Most people (much more than 50%) are unable to separate their feelings for individuals when making judgments on their abilities, so as to make a really objective view on such a player.
Yes, most will grudgingly accept that Suarez is a fantastic player and might secretly wish he was playing for their team, but would they really accept how good he actually is? How do you find the very small minority of people who are capable of a higher degree of objectivity?
Based on your daily submissions at present, you'd have about 1,000 changes in two months, but if it takes off due to publicity, it could happen much quicker. A lot for all of us to do if we want to individually untick the bits we don't like.
Obviously one person will eventually sign off the database at SI, but your not suggesting that the one person concerned has gone through the entire database to see if he/she is happy with it's total content? No, the SI database is as a result of consensus, which I acknowledge is also a flawed method.
#112434 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
I've suggested in one of my other responses that consensus is better than individual opinion in most cases. It's not perfect, but has more chance to accurately reflect reality, or at least the majority perception of reality. SI produce a database based largely on consensus, not individual opinion, or with one person approving the final database.
To be fair, I haven't looked at your LiveUpdate website, so have no idea on how easy it would be to do what you suggest in practice. However, if this really takes off and people from all over make loads of updates, are you suggesting that we scroll through thousands of changes just to untick the ones we don't like or agree with? Also, no two people are likely to have exactly the same database, so it will work well for solo players, but not so good for multiplayer games.
If you're taking this to the next level as you suggest above, please get a team of people around you to approve changes like this by consensus. Can you honestly say that your knowledge of football is so extensive that you know each player, even a 16 year old from China for example, so well, that if someone suggests attribute changes, you are in a good position to judge whether they are appropriate or not?
With hundreds of thousands of players in the game and many different attributes for each player, the potential is there for millions of database changes. Who wants to wade through all that unticking what they don't like?
#112427 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
Your sentence above changes from first person plural "we've" to first person singular "I", so you've almost answered one of my questions. You are the sole arbiter of the changes that are made (or are you in fact a "we" )? Now, you've put in the work and are prepared to be within half an hour of providing virtually live approvals (apart from sleep time/can't you just drink lots of coffee?) so why shouldn't you be the one that gets to have full control, but I'm always nervous of this. SI have a large team of people to come to consensus on these things, to some degree reducing the effects of bias. Leaving one person to agree or disagree with changes doesn't sit well with me.
Thank you for accepting that bias might come into play. Yes if you were a researcher for the game, the same could be true, but final decisions are team decisions, not individual, so as I said above, less potential for bias. People such as "LFCMarshall" have devoted much time and energy into trying to make databases more accurately reflect the real world and whilst they will take into consideration the views of others, they decide what changes to make and of course, bias is potentially there, in fact almost inevitable, because we would all assign different values to players.
What you're doing has the potential to take in the views of a much wider number of people, but doesn't seem to weigh differing opinions in the balance. For example:- I think that Luis Suarez is vastly underrated by SI in their database. Yes, he's a "Marmite" character, you love him or hate him. But in FM2013 he only has a potential rating, or "PA" of 173. Now, many people believe that after Messi and Ronaldo, Suarez is the next best player in the world. Plenty would disagree. Using your update system, I could not yet alter his attributes and PA, but I could ensure that he has 20 for any position forward of midfield and probably quite justifiably. You could approve this, but have someone very soon afterwards disagree and try to change it back, or if they hate Suarez, make the positional scores even lower than original.
If your system offered a more consensus type method of changing things, in particular player's ability, be it attribute or position scores or anything else, it would become a really good way to help make the game be very close to real life.
Good to know, but as I suggested above, this could lead to players yo-yoing up and down as you first approve, then possibly revoke your initial approval.
The idea has great potential, but I'm yet to be convinced that one person sat in judgment of proposed changes from the wide FM2014 playing community will be able to do a better job than the hundreds, if not thousands, of researchers that SI currently use. Yes, their database always leaves much to be desired, but they've been doing it professionally now for over a decade.
Thanks for responding and in particular for accepting the potential of bias. I wanted that to be understood loud and clear and if you as the originator of this idea accept it, the wider community on here can not deny it.
#112419 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
Yes, I understand the difference between attributes and positions.
I note that you say "you can not alter attributes (yet)", which suggests that in future you may be able to. This becomes a real minefield, potentially.
Adjusting the values of positions will affect how well a player will play if he becomes more natural in a position that you want to use him in than he currently is; so although more subtle than attribute changes it still allows for bias in overestimating a players flexibility.
#112408 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
As the OP though, did you read your own post?
Within your quoted section is the following quote:-
"Positions - Alter player position attributes (1-20) for all positions (GK, AML, ST, WB etc.)"
Now to me, that shows the facility to change a player's abilities. For example, a fullback may have a rating of 20 as fullback, but only 10 as a wingback and maybe 5 as a winger. A biased fan could adjust all three positions up to 20, therefore improving the player, so we're not just talking about changing contracts and transfers etc.
SI make plenty of money and can afford all of the growing facilities that they have and use for preparing their database. I think you've answered one of my questions though. This is not going to affect the official SI prepared database, but is at the moment just an option. I hope I've got that right. Although I'm often disappointed with SI's database and in particular the way certain players are rated, at least everyone using it has the same data. If you are playing multiplayer games you have to make sure each player uses the same database, do you not?
Anyhow, based on the quote above, that I read from your OP, bias most definitely can come into it.
#112312 Football Manager 2014 "LIVE" Data Update
Piginho
Judgment can be affected by bias towards your favourite teams and I can see scenarios where people are not happy with the changes made and then either just change them back, or even go the other way. Are the changes approved automatically (after all, you imply that changes made a few seconds ago will be incorporated) or has someone got to approve each change (you imply that you do this after you've checked your eMails, but then it wouldn't be instant), but would imply that you have control over the changes and hence your own bias comes into play?
Is this changing the official Steam updated game or does one have to sign up for it? In other words, if I do nothing but play my normal game, but connected to Internet, allowing Steam to update as and when, will I only get SI approved updates, or am I going to get your "Wickipaedia" style updates as well?
In principle it's a good idea, subject to the answers to my questions above.
#47815 Cut out player faces megapack won't download
Piginho
Hi Daniel,
Don't know how to link you to it, but the first pack you download is near the bottom of the faces megapack download page, under the torrents section. Before I did this, I had to download UTorrent, which you can easily google and download, then make sure you select download torrent and it's faces megapack version 5.0 that you need. You will then need to download the updates, but these are not torrents, just standard downloads.
When you add them to your game, make sure you start with 5.0 and them add updates in sequence, i.e. 5.1, 5.2 etc.
I can't remember all the steps that I took, but I remember that it wasn't straightforward, however I got there in the end.
FWIW, I am also using Windows 7 and Internet Explorer 9. Also, the claim that it's working fine for everyone else is surely worth investigating, as most people will have downloaded when they bought the game last year, so download activity may be low and others with problems may not be reporting them.
#47737 Cut out player faces megapack won't download
Piginho
Had a similar problem and posted on a now closed thread. My download reached 25% exactly, three times in a row before stopping and refusing to resume. I was told that 10,000s of people had downloaded it without any problems, so it couldn't be broken.
In the end I gave up and followed someone's suggestion to download the older torrent, which took about 2 hours, I think and then download all of the updates separately. It was more than a bit of a faff to get it done properly and I'm not new to this as I've been doing this sort of thing since CM03/04.
So, in the end I got around my problems downloading the Mega Facepack from this site, but, like you, having paid the £10 for premium membership, I was more than a bit disappointed.
#46448 Steklo X3 v1.2
Piginho
Sorry for delay pat ess. Yes, this is what I wanted, but managed to find it myself and changed it to my satisfaction.
Got it to work fine.
On a similar note, someone wanted to adjust the thresholds for player attributes. i.e. Make 15, instead of 16, excellent. I used to do this on older versions of the game, as I found 15 acceptable and it allowed me to see at a glance if a player matched my requirements. I did find a file that described player attribute thresholds, but changing the values and reloading the skin made no difference, so if anyone knows which file needs editing to get a working result, please let me know.
#45919 Steklo X3 v1.2
Piginho
Can it be done? and how do I do it please.
#44252 Cut-Out Faces Megapack TECHNICAL SUPPORT thread - please read first post before posting
Piginho
Just need to do kits now.
#44082 Just Paid £10 for Better Downloads!!
Piginho
Sounds good, how do I do that?
#44079 Just Paid £10 for Better Downloads!!
Piginho
On one occasion the download speed promised full download in 35 minutes, but up to two hours on the other occasions. Any longer and I cancelled the download.
It has stopped each time at exactly 25% downloaded, so even if 10,000 people have successfully downloaded in the past, it doesn't mean that it's not broken now.
OK, I wasn't using a download manager. I just clicked the download button after paying my £10 for premium membership. I didn't see a recommendation on a download manager, so can anyone help with that please.
#44065 Just Paid £10 for Better Downloads!!
Piginho
Have spent all afternoon trying this several times. When it wasn't too slow, I left download to continue and the three times I did this, the download stopped at 25% downloaded. That's it, it just stopped in exactly the same place each time.
So, do I get my £10 back, or do you fix the download?
By the way, how do I contact an Admin or Mod on here by PM. Is there a list of Admins and Mods somewhere?
Maybe I'm being impatient, but as it stands, I've wasted time and money that I can't spare.