Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
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Premium
The creation of a new tier within the Football League to accommodate Premier League B teams is at the heart of the Football Association commission's four-point plan to boost English football.

The review also calls for a ban on non-EU players outside of the top flight and a reduction in non-home-grown players in Premier League squads.
It also wants to develop "strategic loan partnerships" between clubs.

The suggestions come as a response to a lack of available English talent.

In the 2012-13 Premier League season, only 32% of starters qualified to play for England, compared to 69% 20 years ago.
The commission's exhaustive review, headed up by FA chairman Greg Dyke, sets an "ambitious but realistic" target of increasing the number of English players in the Premier League to 45% by 2022.

The report states: "There should be 90 English players playing over 50% of minutes in the Premier League compared with 66 today - of these 30 should be playing in the top six teams in the Premier League compared with the 18 today.
"This is still lower than the figures being achieved in Germany and Spain today but it would take English football back to a figure last achieved in 2000".

England manager Roy Hodgson said: "I welcome the proposals. But I am just one voice of many who have contributed to this important study and I hope the debate that has been provoked can lead to some real developments in our game."
The most controversial proposal would be establishing a new League Three in 2016-17, made up of 10 Premier League B teams and 10 from the Conference.
The B team squads would require 20 out of 25 players to qualify for the home-grown rule and no non-EU players would be allowed. Nineteen players would have to be under 21.
The commission also recommended a phased reduction in the number of non-home-grown players in Premier League squads from 17 to 12, reaching their target by 2021.

A cap of two non-EU players per squad has also been proposed, plus a ban on non-EU players outside of the Premier League.
Dyke said: "This decline is a problem in countries right across Europe but is a significantly bigger problem in England than anywhere else - and if the trend continues we fear for the future of the English team.

"This isn't about players even for four years time this is for players for 10 years time, this is to win the 2022 World Cup, by which time I'll be long gone."
The commission - made up of Dyke, Hodgson, Danny Mills, Dario Gradi, Glenn Hoddle, Greg Clarke, Howard Wilkinson, Rio Ferdinand, Ritchie Humphreys and Roger Burden - began work last October and put together the 80-page report after contributions from more than 650 people across all levels of the sport.




The four problem areas identified by the FA commission
Area 1 - Inadequate and insufficient playing opportunities for 18-20 year-old elite players at top clubs.
Area 2 - Regulation of the player market in England is not effective in preserving the desired balance of British, EU and non-EU players in clubs.
Area 3 - Coaching and coach development, essentially at grassroots level, have not yet reached a satisfactory level and impact.
Area 4 - England lags behind in the quantity and quality of affordable grassroots facilities, particularly in the provision of all-weather pitches.


So the plan is that Leagues 1 and 2 can go fuck themselves.

Also:
The commission also recommended a phased reduction in the number of non-home-grown players in Premier League squads from 17 to 12, reaching their target by 2021.

A cap of two non-EU players per squad has also been proposed, plus a ban on non-EU players outside of the Premier League.

Fuck foreigners entirely.

England's football "pyramid" is probably the best in the world, now they want to completely fuck with it. If it ain't broke...
The Platypus
13 years ago
1 year ago
1,784
This is just... shit.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
It's very clearly a plan to improve the England national team which England's 'football pyramid' has clearly not been helping so 'if it ain't broke' doesn't apply.

I actually think these are all sensible suggestions and if well implemented will improve the standard of football thoroughout the leagues.

The clear plan from the FA is to produce more England qualified players playing throughout the league system.

Very postive to see the FA trying to take an active lead in achieving this and very disappointing to see sensationalist nonsense to shoot it down. There's clearly a debate to be had about whether the B team league is the best course of action, but people are yet to argue with anything other than emotional sensationalism against it.
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
There definitely should be a better system in place to stop the bigger clubs hoovering players up though.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
There definitely should be a better system in place to stop the bigger clubs hoovering players up though.


I don't understand why that's the argument people are going for. The cream should inevitably rise to the top, otherwise it wouldn't be the top. The benefits for the smaller clubs if the system works is being left with a better standard of chaff after the wheat has moved on.
Footygamer
17 years ago
2 days ago
75,258
I hate the idea of B teams in the lower leagues with a passion, how will that help anything?

As for development, I think we need to realise it needs to start at lower levels, we have a massive lack of trained coaches compared to the more successful nations:

The belief that England lacks coaching quality and depth appears to be backed up when figures elsewhere in Europe are examined. England has just 1,178 coaches at UEFA "A" level, compared with 12,720 in Spain and 5,500 in Germany. At "Pro" Licence level, England has 203 coaches, Spain 2,140 and Germany more than 1,000.


That will take a decade or more to fix, to train these people up and then to wait for the players they've been working with to come through, it won't happen overnight.

As for reducing the number of home-grown players, that is one possibility. But again, it won't instantly make the talent appear, in the short term it will just mean our club sides are weaker.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Limiting foreign players only brings the overall quality of the league down, which negates the whole "Produce better betters for England" thing.

Why would smaller clubs have to put up with travelling to Stoke's B team mid-week?

Wenger already said himself that the problem with England's youth is that it's too focused on competition rather than developing skills. This will only make that even worse.

They've essentially just shit on lower league teams "for the greater good" (IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU HATE YOUR COUNTRY!!!). And I'd go along with saying that England have produced enough quality players and are doing alright for themselves internationally so no it isn't really broke. Spain have like 5 million times the amount of coaches England has, why not focus on that rather than only having it as a side point?

This + EPPP is just going to make it even easier for "big" clubs to take every single talent in the country and leave lower league clubs with pure scraps
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
I don't understand why that's the argument people are going for. The cream should inevitably rise to the top, otherwise it wouldn't be the top. The benefits for the smaller clubs if the system works is being left with a better standard of chaff after the wheat has moved on.


They should rise to the top once they have proven themselves, not beforehand.

The fact a UEFA A License costs about 2 grand more in England than it does in Spain and Germany speaks volumes, the FA are too greedy to really help the smaller clubs. I fail to see how implementing teams such as Man Utd B and Chelsea B and slotting them in alongside other teams is going to help anything at all? It'll help the big clubs develop players, sure - but it's pointless trying to disguise it as a fix for grassroots football - as it won't help it at all.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
Did you even read what you posted? Improving coaching is literally the third point of four.

Also no the point of quotas is clearly in line with the rest of it improving the quality of youth being produced AND making sure they get a chance to develop and showcase their talent.

Anyway it's worth remembering that this is just a commissions findings into how to improve the game this is not what will necessarily happen, and will probably be ignored, and then people will complain were still shit in 10 years still and someone should do something.

Edit:@slash rather than Poe
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
Improving the quality of coaching in the country will no doubt see those prices rise further, though.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Did you even read what you posted? Improving coaching is literally the third point of four.

Also no the point of quotas is clearly in line with the rest of it improving the quality of youth being produced AND making sure they get a chance to develop and showcase their talent.

Anyway it's worth remembering that this is just a commissions findings into how to improve the game this is not what will necessarily happen, and will probably be ignored, and then people will complain were still shit in 10 years still and someone should do something.

Edit:@slash rather than Poe


Yes, I said it was treated as secondary, and that is true, otherwise a radical shake up of the entire league structure would be a last resort

How does only playing against English players increase the quality of those English players and help them at all in international tournaments?
I'm willing to bet that Rodwell is a lot better off playing with and beside Yaya day in and day out than playing with Mark Noble or Scott Parker.

Instead of copying the worst parts of foreign leagues (B Teams), why not copy the other parts like get players to focus on their development when they're younger rather than focus on winning pointless games.

EDIT: They're not even doing anything about coaching right now, they just highlighted it as a problem
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
Yes, I said it was treated as secondary, and that is true, otherwise a radical shake up of the entire league structure would be a last resort

How does only playing against English players increase the quality of those English players and help them at all in international tournaments?
I'm willing to bet that Rodwell is a lot better off playing with and beside Yaya day in and day out than playing with Mark Noble or Scott Parker.

Instead of copying the worst parts of foreign leagues (B Teams), why not copy the other parts like get players to focus on their development when they're younger rather than focus on winning pointless games.

EDIT: They're not even doing anything about coaching right now, they just highlighted it as a problem

Listening to 5Live last night, they were saying they're releasing a second report at a later date about youth coaching and stuff like that.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Aye, says Autumn. But the whole report was about copying Germany at the start of the millennium, yet a lot of what Germany did was improve coaching
Vercoe
11 years ago
3 years ago
1,510
B teams. What a complete and utter "fuck you" to the lower league teams.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
Yes, I said it was treated as secondary, and that is true, otherwise a radical shake up of the entire league structure would be a last resort

How does only playing against English players increase the quality of those English players and help them at all in international tournaments?
I'm willing to bet that Rodwell is a lot better off playing with and beside Yaya day in and day out than playing with Mark Noble or Scott Parker.

Instead of copying the worst parts of foreign leagues (B Teams), why not copy the other parts like get players to focus on their development when they're younger rather than focus on winning pointless games.

EDIT: They're not even doing anything about coaching right now, they just highlighted it as a problem


All you're doing is taking things out of isolation and saying 'how will X help'

Its very obvious how a quota will help when considered as part of the entire system.

Honestly, I think you know the answer to every question you're asking, but you're deliberately framing them as if it a massive outrage.

Yes, but thats not the point. Very clearly Greg Dyke said they want the Yaya Toures, Sergio Aguero's, Luis Suarez's etc.. of this world playing in the premier league, what they don't want is 'mediocre' non-EU players. 40% of whom, according to the report, coming in to the Premier League do not play PL football the season after. There's clearly no benefit to those players being here and are denying players an opportunity for the sake of a quick fix.

Additionally, everyone knows about the competitive football line but its not relevant. No one has said that 18-21 year olds shouldn't be playing competitive football, and its frankly bizarre to see it suggested here, what they have said is that English youth development emphasises playing to win at too young an age (basically 11 up), that's also something that the FA has noted and plans to address/has addressed.

And for the second time, this is a commission tasked with finding ways to improve the England football team. That is all they have been asked to do, and the conclusion that if you give the best academies, who presumably have the best coaches and facilities, the best opportunity to develop the best players you're more likely, all things considered, to produce the best players.

Why that is controversial in football I don't know, if a government commission came back with the results 'brightest pupils at the best schools perform best in exams' you'd get a string of comments on what a waste of money this common sense finding was.

And they're not doing anything about anything now, this is a list of suggestions. The fact they're suggesting that coaching is not an acceptable level holds the same weight as suggesting that a B League team would help development.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Yes, but thats not the point. Very clearly Greg Dyke said they want the Yaya Toures, Sergio Aguero's, Luis Suarez's etc.. of this world playing in the premier league,


That'll be hard with a limit of only 2 non-EU players allowed in the squads.

I'm not arsed talking about the rest of your point cos we're both too stubborn to even think about changing our opinions on this
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
That'll be hard with a quote of only 2 non-EU players allowed in the squads.

I'm not arsed talking about the rest of your point cos we're both too stubborn to even think about changing our opinions on this


Yeah, I'm not saying that the 2 limit is necessarily a great idea, just that I agree with the reasoning behind it and a properly implemented version of the idea would be beneficial.
VP.
13 years ago
1 week ago
25,271
I'm far too lazy right now to type a load out but basically something like this.

Improve coaching > improve grassroots > better young players > limit number of foreign players > higher quality English players coming though > no need for mediocre foreigners > fuck B teams
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Yeah, I'm not saying that the 2 limit is necessarily a great idea, just that I agree with the reasoning behind it and a properly implemented version of the idea would be beneficial.


It would lead to the UAE becoming part of the EU and annexing Brazil and Argentina. Guarantee it
Eric Portapotty
14 years ago
1 week ago
3,322
I don't understand why that's the argument people are going for. The cream should inevitably rise to the top, otherwise it wouldn't be the top. The benefits for the smaller clubs if the system works is being left with a better standard of chaff after the wheat has moved on.

The cream should rise to the top, but if it doesn't rise to the very top (i.e. actually playing regularly for top clubs) there's no real point.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
What exactly have Rio Ferdinand and Danny Mills done to be included in a panel like that?
RhylFCKiko
12 years ago
1 month ago
457
I personally would be fine with a B-Team League, just not integrated within the pyramid. We already have development leagues, why not try and set one up separate to the pyramid. It's a joke
Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092
England's football "pyramid" is probably the best in the world, now they want to completely fuck with it. If it ain't broke...


This really.

There is no need to touch the football pyramid.
One Night In Grimsby
17 years ago
6 years ago
334
http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-football-association-say-no-to-b-teams

Link to petition against B team league.

Absolutely ridiculous idea.

#notoleague3
bmg033
10 years ago
4 months ago
2,268

Already signed it

As these B teams can't get higher than League 1, what would happen if the top 6 teams in League 1 were all B teams? Would there be no promotions, or would the teams that finished 7th and 8th be automatically promoted with 9th-12th in play offs? Both of those scenarios are ridiculous and are one of the many reasons I am against this load of shit.
Telegram Sam
15 years ago
5 months ago
5,082
Premium
I absolutely hate the idea of B teams. It completes devalues the lower league clubs and I can't see an awful lot of benefit either. There are better ways to do it other than giving two fingers straight to the smaller clubs. Disgraceful from the FA.

What exactly have Rio Ferdinand and Danny Mills done to be included in a panel like that?

If I remember correctly the FA got some stuck when the initial panel was released because it was all-white so they asked Rio along as the token black dude. No idea about Mills though.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
Mills got it because he played every England game in the 2002 World Cup and still has some sort of profile 'cos he's on the radio a lot.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
I'm sure the "League 3" clubs will love the loss in revenue due to people not really being arsed going to see Stoke B play
Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092


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