Terrorism

Picking up from the night thread, about the Paris incident, discuss.

Terrorism is a sadly vague term now.

fucking hate islam state I hope they all burn

The world at large should really start considering if the Islamic State is Islamic at all. We've got one hand calling it fundamentalist, the other calling it extremist – Two definitions that need to be absolutely separated, lest we 1) see more (educated) Muslims smuggling themselves to Syria to fight the Holy War or 2) start an international race war.

Question: If you were to buy a Quran, do you have to have it shipped in nondescript brown paper like Penthouse? Or will you not only be detained but labelled a racist too? Asking for a friend.

thats all well and good whiskey but can u tell me more about your arse hair haha

No time for arse hairs Ips, there's no arse hairs in the foxhole

I find this a bit weird.

Yeah, I get why people are keen to say they're not Muslims and whatever, because it makes you seem like you're being really tolerant. But its just not true. They evidently, are Muslims. Just a group of Muslims who's interpretation of the scripture is incredibly, violent, regressive, and backwards.

It's an issue since Obama said they weren't Muslim. The definitions do matter.

The religious element is only one reason that IS are the way they are; there's also other reasons / causes such as consolidation of power. That's why they could simply be un-Muslim entirely, the same way you'd read the Bible and start killing people when it told you thou shalt not kill. Yes there's other parts of the Bible where they said you could kill in certain circumstances, but surely you get what I mean.

Don't get me wrong, I see them as genuinely Islamic as well, tolerance aside. But I can't let the reactionary, occasionally even neo-Nazi opinions pull wool over my eyes, because everyone has an agenda and so do the people who claim that the ISIS is indeed Muslim. I'll have to read that book for myself.

I do, but I don't really see the point of the general argument.

Just because we don't like the particular interpretation doesn't mean its not an interpretation of the Islamic faith.

We tend to form modern morals independent of the scripture and then look for evidence for it. Take the Christian faith as an example. The bible is unequivocal on homosexuality -its a bad thing- 'a man who lies with another man should be stoned' but in our modern society most of us have reached the decision that gay people are alright, so you have to look to other stuff to support that viewpoint. The other interesting one is that the bible is similarly unequivocal on the issue of women holding leadership positions, yet because we've decided that women, actually, are alright, too, the church is currently undergoing a bitter internal debate on whether women should be able to hold leadership positions. On both issues modern morals are dictating interpretation of the scripture, the scripture is not influencing modern morals.

You could argue, with some justification, that IS are dicks regardless of being Muslims and that their reading of the Koran is aimed at picking out aspects of the faith that support their dickishness. But quite a lot of it is classic Islam, parts of Islam rejected by the moderate mainstream not because they are not there, but because the secular morality has meant they are ignored. IS, similarly, ignore the parts of Islam along the lines of 'Don't be a dick' because their bellicose, violent reading of the Koran doesn't agree with them. Someone with more knowledge of the Koran would have to tell me which is the closest most 'correct' reading, but arguing that IS or any Islamic terrorist group isn't Islamic is a bit perverse.

I think its based on faulty logic, propagated by Muslims who want to dissociate themselves with terrorists, and accepted -as you say- for reasons of tolerance. If the argument is framed, as almost any religious person I know tends to frame it, along the lines of 'My religion makes me a good person' then people who use that religion to justify horrible acts don't fit in the framework - How can you be a Muslim if you are a bad person? - As an atheist I would argue that whether you are a good person or not is independent to your religion, I know plenty of people who are appealing adherents to their religion but great people and plenty, too, who adhere closely to their religion, but are dicks.

Yeah, I find it weird when people say they're not Muslims - religion is by and large unique.

I wouldn't bother reading the Quran - it will probably be weird - it was written a long time ago.

I hope ISIS burn in hell. I say this a lot, which has me looking over my shoulder every time I go outside, especially when I see someone who looks Muslim (no racism intended)

It really is sad what is going on in the past week. I think ISIS are different to everything that we know. Even here in Israel, we fight Hamas and Hizaballa but it just seems like ISIS is willing to take the extra step. I really wonder how the world will handle this. All of the big countries will be too scared to look racist I think.

Double post. Sorry.