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.verse
Part of me wants to feel sorry for Mata, but knowing it was his choice to leave makes it a little harder.
Sam
Why is Moyes playing Mata out on the right?
Sears
Just seen that on Twitter.
Slashman X
Slashman X
Ninja
In fairness, it's mostly because of injury problems.
Also a weird stick to beat him with because the same happened under Ferguson.
Jonas
Flash.
Last one is insane.
Shola
Telegram Sam
They include play-off victories and winning League 2, etc.
Shola
Just realised that list includes Newcastle though \o/
Ninja
See I think this is an unfair stick to beat Moyes with.
Mata was always going to be playing from wide for us, but even your heat map shows he's not playing 'wide right'. His clear tendency is to drift inside, just analysis that for a second, he has as many touches (I assume thats touches its measuring) in central midfield as he does close to the byline, and even then I imagine the vast majority of those were touches coming back from taking corners.
Although it obviously favours the right side it's clear that he's drifting all across that front line, hence the large heat spot on the left flank and the fact that the heat off the right comes inside.
This, to be fair to Moyes is a pretty progressive position and this is despite the fact that our performance was entirely based upon players getting to the byline and putting in crosses, something which Mata clearly was not doing .
Another manager with the front 4 of Rooney, RVP, Januzaj and Mata would use them in similar ways. There's a really exciting prospect of some excellent combinations with Rafael and Evra (or a competent left back in the summer) providing the width thats needed. Unfortunately, Moyes seems determined to play one of the shittest brands of football imaginable with them.
Telegram Sam
Mhmm. People love overstate this trophy drought business though.
King Luis
Slashman X
Sam
Are you defending Moyes?!
Ninja
I don't really have an agenda one way or another.
I just try to say what I see.
Ninja
Telegram Sam
It's constantly used as a way to put down the club but at the same time it doesn't take into account we've built a new stadium in that time, incurring massive debts, and have stayed competitive throughout that period bar the odd bad spell. The fact we haven't dropped out of the Champions League once or fallen in a way that Liverpool did is seriously impressive. We have also managed two League Cup finals and one Champions League final since 2005 so haven't exactly fallen off the map.
It's a monkey on our backs that is becoming heavier and heavier but at the same time it doesn't reflect our status as a club.
Number 1
Tbf we'll be going 45 years without a major trophy by May, barring some freak miracle that lands us the Premier League title. I'm surprised the media doesn't give us a larger kicking.
Given Arsenal and West Ham are putting games on despite having bigger grounds in areas that have even less tube connections due to the strike action, one can't help but think they're hiding behind the tube strike.
K3V0
.verse
Playing Mata out wide doesn't benefit United nor Mata though. Moyes just spunked near £40m on a no.10 simply only to shove him on the wing, despite the fact he drifts inside on a regular basis. There's a reason why Mata wasn't being selected for Chelsea this season and United are actually highlighting these exact weaknesses in Mata's game. United have attacking fullbacks, having Mata out wide will allow space for them but it also leaves the fullbacks exposed because Mata offers no defensive protection. Mata needs to play through the middle to not only get the best from him personally, but to also help cover his weaknesses on the defensive side of his game. At the end of the day he wasn't the right player for United at all. It's about the last area United needed to strengthen when it comes to midfield. His signing isn't going to change anything, which we're already seeing as United's problems are in other areas.
What Moyes has gone and done is made his life a lot harder now because he now must find a way to fit Rooney, RvP, Mata and Januzaj into the one side and maintain a balance. Rooney loves to drop need and is better suited just behind a main striker, this takes away any space that would be occupied by Mata if he was to be played through the middle, hence he's pushed wide. This then means Januzaj (arguably the only positive for United this season) is pushed to bench on a more regular basis with Young more likely to start. This then highlights the point made before on Mata's weaknesses defensively, which teams will expose.
Ninja
Mata is no more a 'defensive liability' than Nani, Young, Valencia, Kagawa or Januzaj. Two of those, Young and Valencia, have got a reputation as being particularly strong defensively, presumably because there's no other logic for them playing.
I'm going to call this the Mourinho factor, because he decides that he wants hard working players in the final third everyone needlessly parrots him as if its the only way to win a football match.
It's also missing the point.
What people are missing is not that Mourinho wants 3 hard working players, its that he wants a hard working number 10. Oscar is a different beast to almost any number 10 I can think of in that he isn't really a number 10, more a third midfielder at the tip of a diamond. The trade off is despite how crucial he is to this Mourinho system in terms of pure output he's a long way off the numbers Mata managed at this point last season.
With Willian doing a similar job (and also because he's got pace to burn, which Mata does not have) it frees up one spot for a player to play with freedom, a la Ronaldo at Madrid last season. That Mourinho opted for Hazard over Mata is probably not a controversial selection. The difference in their defensive contribution is negligible, if anything Mata looks stronger on paper.
The problem is one of two things, 1) forming conclusions on a player after 3 games (despite the fact he's been amongst our best players every game) 2) the type of player he is playing in the system David Moyes, if anyone genuinely thinks that him playing number 10 would have stopped the tactical abomination of yesterday you're on cloud cuckoo land.
The Platypus
Maybe based on last season. This season we've seen Hazard track back with the same pace he uses to rape defenders.
Mata is a better passer than Oscar. He's more creative, has better vision, etc. And when he's free to do whatever he wants, it's not so surprising that he gets a lot of goals and assists, because he's a terrifically gifted player. He does offer absolutely nothing defensively. Absolutely nothing. He doesn't track runners, his pressing is a scharade at best.
If the team is built around him, then he's brilliant. Chelsea's hard defensive unit, built to break with pace, certainly wasn't built around him. So he's now gone. He showed more in his first three Chelsea games than he has for Utd so far, but I assume he'll get going soon.
Ninja
No ones trying to claim he's a gifted defender, but he's clearly capable of doing his bit. His presence in the team for every single one of the games against Barcelona and Bayern Munich (the Barca games in particular, where he played from the right) are clear indications that he's not the defensive liability that the poster I was responding to believed him to be.
I'm not trying to insinuate Mourinho was wrong, I perfectly understand his decision making process I just think in making that decision a pretty distorted view has been created by his hordes of supporters.
As for the last point, thats fair enough, but again, thats Moyes to blame more than anyone. If he wanted to play football in the way we have been we should have got Andy Carroll and Peter Crouch in in January, not an actual footballer like Mata.
Ninja
.verse
Bobber basically hit the nail on the head with his response. In saying that.
As much as I love Mata, quite often it was like defending with 10 men in games where possession wasn't being dominated. He was also aided in having two fullbacks (depending which side he'd pop up on), that were more defensively orientated. Once you remove the freedom Mata was previously given under RDM and Rafa and he's required to fit within a structure, his defensive weaknesses stand out. More so if your fullbacks are encouraged forward. As much as he tried to put in some defensive work he simply wasn't able to deliver. He can't tackle, he's too lightweight and not athletic enough to press or cover ground. Give him the ball in the attacking half and he'll create you something, there isn't a doubt about that. It shows when he's used through the middle. However, his defensive game has always been an issue of his, well before Mourinho even returned. The system in place previously saw the striker having to put in more of a defensive shift as Mata remained forward. This has all become something that has been highlighted more this season with the change in system and responsibilities placed upon the attacking three behind the striker to work hard defensively too.
It's also a large part of why he also struggles to break into the Spanish NT. The players ahead of him are still required to do defensive work and excel more in it than what Juan does. What I find odd in him leaving with focus on the World Cup. Even at Chelsea during his last two seasons he was playing week in week out at a high level and still only finding himself on the bench. Going to United isn't really going to do much more than ensure he gets a ticket on the plane. Best of luck to him nonetheless.
The Platypus
King Luis
Shola
CLASSLESS. HOW DARE THEY DO SOMETHING DECENT AND NOT TURN IT INTO A PR OPPORTUNITY?
And the SuperFans definitely, definitely, definitely wouldn't complain if it was the other way round, about using sick kids as marketing tools, dressed in WONGA toon shirts.