Future transfer discussion [Changing The Data Update System]

@Footygamer @TheMinsterman

Hi all,

I don't know if this is the right place to ask, but a lot of players are pending for free transfer, like Debuchy or van Ginkel were. I think these players should be set to ‘Will leave after contract expires’ - which is not available online editor -  instead of a release of contract? Same for staff, for example Advocaat will leave Feyenoord, but only at the end of the season and some of his staff members will follow. Now they probably are all released in the game in 2020 already. So they will leave in the summer of 2021, but still play their first season at for example Saint-Etienne.

I'm not sure that would quite make sense. The transfer window opens in the UK on June 9th. So in theory Harry Kane could join Chelsea on June 10th. It would be weird to have the data update make Harry Kane at Chelsea but Van Ginkel also at Chelsea for the first season.

Basically Van Ginkel and Debuchy are free transfers in real life so the data update should have them as free transfers and let people have the opportunity to sign them.

I guess the confusion is that technically they're not free until their contract ends but the changes are being made now. I think it's okay to release them now that the season is basically over, otherwise we'd have to backlog loads of work and do it all on July 1st or something which, while technically correct, doesn't seem to give any benefit in terms of gameplay to people using the data update.

Does that make sense?

Let me know if you disagree or if i've misunderstood your point.

Hey mate, thanks for your reply. Makes sense, but then some players with future transfers at 1-7-2021 should be corrected to be part of their new club starting in 1-7-2020 right? For example André Ramalho Silva is joining PSV Eindhoven - should I now add it as a future transfer or just change his club? Or do we only change the club when there is a free transfer?

Yes we have this debate every year (and to be honest I always forget). Although July 1st is technically correct I think it would be good to move them on June 1st, this would allow us to acknowledge the end of the previous season and basically say we're moving on to the 2021 season now.

This would be an automated task so wouldn't require anyone going in and manually moving them.

I'll just tag all the other active mods to see if they have any thoughts?

@roderrio 

@Silkmen89 

@JúNioR_SpAwN.d 

@Matthew Salisbury 

@tombazzlez 

@Jay Brockie 

@Mateee 

@Samuel Pahus 

@LBOW6 

@krissmed 

@Simon Yaffe 

I also think that it will be good to move the players on June 1st.

I always thought the ‘future transfer to’ was only for in game like they would stay at there club for the first season then transfer in season 2, then we'd have to go back and transfer them all manually to then use them in the first season at there new club. Is this now automatically done on site? 

I understand having old and new players together is a little confusing but over time when other players transfer it will fix itself. I thought it was okay to transfer players now the season is over then there's no backlog of doing them all after contracts technically expire after the 30th of June, or so a transfer is not forgotten about weeks later.

If the future transfer works on site too then we could set new transfers to ‘future transfer on the 1st of June’ and let it move them for us on that date? Although that's only a few days away now so not really much point 😅

Yes, I see your point. I believe having the option of ‘Will Retire on x date’ and ‘Will be released on x date’ option would remedy this issue as we could set Advocaat's retiring date, and Slot's future transfer would be done as it is now. 

But for the ‘releasing players in May vs. June’ question, these options would solve this too as we could just set everyone to be released on future date and it would be done once, and done accurately instead of us discussing this question yearly. There may be reasons we can't do this, but would be brilliant if we could

Yeah exactly. I think I'd like to play the 2020 season as it currently is, and then see all the transfers and players running out of contract in 2021 I think. But it requires some work now for all the previous changes made.

We could for example set Aguero to leave  after contract. Once he signed we add the future transfer:

We only have to add the ‘Will leave at the end of contract’ option to the Sortitoutsi online db. I've tested this before with Brian Brobbey and it works perfectly. He still will play the season with Man City and will move to Barcelona afterwards or if that has not applied yet will for sure leave at the end of the season (City cannot offer a new contract).

What do you reckon @Footygamer ?

But I also think that it will be technical choice to move the players on July 1st. There shouldn't be any change.

It’s the same for Alaba now. We could set his contract to expire and future transfer to Real Madrid on 01/07/21 (contract expiration is not really needed because of the future transfer) Then we’ll still be able to play the 2020 season and see all the transfers and players running out of contract coming to live during the savegame, which I think provides the most realistic experience. The only problem we’ll face is with players on loan, I believe we’re not able to schedule a loan contract as a future transfer. 

Wholeheartedly agree with you wfm. I think what we have outlined here addresses all the problems that the yearly ‘change status now or wait for June 30’ discussion poses. Being able to set future releases, future loans, future transfer to national teams solves everything

Yeah I think we only run into problems with players that are loaned out for both 20-21 and 21-22. Let's say for example Carel Eiting extends his contract at Ajax and goes on loan to AZ Alkmaar in the upcoming season. He is currently playing on loan for Huddersfield Town. The only way we could move him to AZ is by also moving him in the 2020-2021 season on loan to AZ (2 year deal) or letting him play for his original club (Ajax) in 20-21 and then loan him out the following season, if the theory below works:

We could change the start date of a loan contract to 2021. I did not test it, so I don't know if it acts like a 'future loan', but I think it does. This will especially be realistic for players that are currently (20-21) not loaned out but they will be next season (21-22). I hope this will not make it massively complicated 😛

What does everyone think of the me and wfm's discussion, @Footygamer @roderrio 

@Silkmen89 

@JúNioR_SpAwN.d 

@Matthew Salisbury 

@Jay Brockie 

@Mateee 

@Samuel Pahus 

@LBOW6 

@krissmed 

@Simon Yaffe 

Player Age increase for the data update please

‘Future loans’ don't work, no matter what date the loan is set to start, the player will be on loan from the start of your game

yes its always been like this

moved posts from https://sortitoutsi.net/content/57961/fm21-summer-db-player-requests#comment_637121 

I'm a bit late, but I believe the problem is that future transfers will be set with the current date in mind, which messes up the database as the transfers wouldn't happen until a couple of years into the save, right? 

Just to give my two cents, I personally like to have pretty much the same squad as in real life when I start up a new save. It means that I can play with the same team multiple times. One solution to please most people would be to re-implement and extend the custom start date file and integrate that into the custom database, if possible. 

At the end of the day, whichever solution you decide to go for is fine for me. I really don't have a strong opinion on it 👍

right I have had to move all the posts manually here as you can see it had taken over the other thread totally

What @wfm18 is asking for is asked for alot but is difficult to manage, I also don't think it's the most popular form of data update e.g. when someone here's that Aguero has signed for Barcelona they don't rush online to download a data update so that they can play for a year and see him move a year later, they rush online to download a data update to get Aguero at Barcelona right now.

I also don't think you can/should try and shift the current data update to cater for that desire, what you would need is two separate data updates that work in two different ways. Even then you'd get arguments about how to organise the second data update e.g. should Aguero be forced to sign for Barcelona or should you set leaving at end of contract so that the manager of Chelsea has the opportunity to sign him just like the real life Chelsea had the opportunity?

So basically if you want that sort of data update where everything happens in the future reflecting real life dates that would be an entirely separate project that would need to be planned seperately. 

Our data update however reflects the squads as they are today, the only exception to this is that we're going to move players on June 1st rather than July 1st because there's no moderation or gameplay benefit to waiting until July 1st when clubs are announcing them throughout the whole of June.

Does that make sense? I've commented on some complicated things quite broadly there so i'm not sure if it will all completely make sense.

Fully agree, makes total sense

You right, especially for as given example of Aguero.

Fair points. Considering the data update here is all about realism, I think it is fair to suggest that we offer two options - one for those who want to start a new game with Aguero at Barcelona immediately  (and don't care that they'll be playing in the summer of 2020) and those who want the most realism (which is the core foundation of this site's data update philosophy), starting in summer of 2020 but with all transfers happening when they actually occurred, with Aguero joining Barcelona on July 1st 2021. 

Let's you play how you want to play

This👍

when I was wanting to start a save game in previous game versions but in  the following season from the initial game set up dates-

 eg in the  current game  FM21 This would obviously be the 21 /22 season

 I would use a custom start date and real fixtures+results to get the league tables correct  for the ‘new’ season and then I did my own pre- confirmed free transfers pre game in the editor [eg Aguero to Barcelona to take place 1/7/21 ] and the loans money/non free transfers using the IGE for leagues I was interested in this way teams actually spend/receive money too

So the initial season   is played with real squads at game start eg 20/21  and then the  21 /22 Transfers take place when they should as in real life so the DB is more realistic IMO

The downside is not having correct winners of cups and player stats recorded[no big deal for me]

However I consider that better that starting the 21/ 22 season  in 2020 with teams basically having had major squad updates twice- the real life 2020 deals and the deals of 2021 added [without any money coming in/out so favouring the ‘big’ teams massively] and still having starting budgets to even buy more players!

Now IF I get a chance to ever start a save this version it will be in 2020 with the original DB set up, then put a transfer ban in place until Feb 2021 and then use FMRTE/IGE to address major non free transfers/loans/injuries etc

Its a question of what you guys want and if you want to change things perhaps a poll should be offered to users to see what people want? and then if it is possible.But it would be a massive amount of work too.

 IMO it is too  big an ask to maintain 2 data updates- one the way its done now and a ‘more realistic’ DB as you elude to above

 it would be one or the other IMO but this is just my input. 

No option is perfect its a question of what compromises people can live with, I suppose for me its the later option namely 2021 transfers taking place in 2021 not 2020

If this is something that's wanted we'll have to wait until FM22.

Right now we don't have the dates all transfers occurred, only the dates they were submitted, which isn't the same.

We also reset in January and assumed people would use SI's January Update and then ours on top, so it would be effort to go back and set up from Summer 2020 again.

I think you should try and create another thread that properly documents how this alternative update would work and what would be required to make it work, I have a feeling it would be more work than you realise.

Leave this thread as a thread of how to handle future transfers in the normal update we currently run.

268 future transfers up until July 1st have been automatically converted to transfers now.

An automated script will run every night that will transfer any players in the future (e.g. if a player has a future transfer of September 1st it will be automatically made a transfer on September 1st from now on).

Hi everyone,

Sorry for the late response.

Can I ask, also, will a file soon be created for all promotions/relegations?

Thanks.

I think this is a very fair point. Starting to implement this for the next version of FM seems a very good idea in my opinion, but sticking to the ‘direct’ transfer system for this year.

I‘d love to help out for next year if needed. I think we need something that converts all future transfers to the year the save starts and a strong governance on submissions with setting players to leave after contract or a future transfer on 1/7.

Edit: is there btw also a possibility that you run the script in reverse (setting all transfers to future transfers)?

Unfortunately not, we don't have the date the transfers occurred, only the date they were submitted which is usually different, especially if someone has just edited a transfer to fix a wage or something.