WeddyOhWeddyWoo
13 years ago
4 years ago
35
As a 22 year old, most of my support for Arsenal over the past 10 years has been futile. Only 2 F.A cups, with both of them coming in the past two seasons. However, what we don't miss is consistency, Having made champions league football for around 16 years, and also escaping the group stages for the past 14, what we have is a record surpassed by only the elite clubs of the world.

Lets look at Jose Mourinho for a minute, a variety of nicknames professing his managerial prowess for his achievements with cash rich Chelsea. However, On 17 December 2015, after losing nine out of sixteen league games Jose was unceremoniously fired.

Lets cut to the chase, Arsene Wenger has had to pay for a new stadium, sell his best players, rely on young and unknown players, and still finds consistency for over a decade.
Jose has hundreds of millions to spend, wins a few trophy's and then nearly gets his team relegated - 'the special one'

My Question to you, why are Arsenal and Arsene Wenger so under-rated? What has caused the apparent complacency that people hold when thinking about the achievements of Arsenal? And last of all, what do you like/dislike about Arsenal?
Carroll.
15 years ago
4 years ago
3,361
He's not under-rated at all
The Platypus
14 years ago
1 year ago
1,784
Arsenal fans hatred for Mourinho is ridiculous. The man has won the league in every country he's been in. Won the Champions League with Porto and Inter, massive underdogs in the tournament. He has his faults, and he's rightly criticized for them, but no matter what happened this season, he's one of the best managers of all time.

Wenger has been a fantastic manager for Arsenal, but the same as Mourinho, he's also been rightfully criticized for his shortcomings. That's the way it is.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
Mourinho doesn't get criticised for his managerial ability, he gets criticised for being a massive fucking bellend
The Platypus
14 years ago
1 year ago
1,784
Arsenal fans hatred for Mourinho is ridiculous.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
Party at my gaff when Mourinho dies
bmg033
10 years ago
4 days ago
2,268
How is Wenger underrated? Isn't he thought of as one of the best PL managers ever and maybe even the best Arsenal manager ever? I'd say he is. Also I love it when gooners bring up the "we've qualified for the CL 16 times in a row" thing like its some kind of amazing achievement
Grimnir
16 years ago
5 months ago
2,727
How is Wenger underrated? Isn't he thought of as one of the best PL managers ever and maybe even the best Arsenal manager ever? I'd say he is. Also I love it when gooners bring up the "we've qualified for the CL 16 times in a row" thing like its some kind of amazing achievement


I imagine teams like Celtic and such have done similar?
WeddyOhWeddyWoo
13 years ago
4 years ago
35
I imagine teams like Celtic and such have done similar?


I think you're both undermining the quality of the Champions League (Which is the elite competition of Europe) while failing to understand that the premier league is an extremely competitive competition, as opposed to the SPL which has generally been dominated by 1 or 2 teams for the past however many years. I think qualifying for the champions league is an amazing acheivment. There's over 20 levels of English football and only the top 4 of the very top tear qualify for it.
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
How has qualifying for the Champions League been a great achievement?

Arsenal have been one of the four best teams in the league for the past 16 years and have, to no ones real surprise, managed to occupy one of the four slots that guarantees you Champions League football.

I would say its becoming harder, but I don't think thats true either, Liverpool dropped off the face of the earth, and our utter shittness as a footballing side have meant that at no point over the past 2-3 seasons have anymore than 4 sides looked remotely like getting Champions League football. Even this season, until the point where we forgot how to win football matches full-stop the top 4 looks like it would have been remotely settled with Spurs replacing Chelsea (unless people think Leicester will somehow stay there).

Wenger gets credit for what he deserves credit for, but his 'fantastic' work when the new stadium was being built was taking a squad that was the 4th best in the league, with the 4th largest wage budget, to 4th place. He deserves credit for not fucking it up, yeah, but he did the bare minimum. If he'd actually been able to do anything once in the Champions League, even win a few cups, or even win a title, he'd get praise for that too. In reality, he was little more than a safe pair of hands, and rightly doesn't get tonnes of praise for those years.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
To be fair our ridiculous wage budgets in them periods are all down to Wenger adopting a 'socialist wage structure' which was lunacy. The likes of Denilson, Squillaci & Park were on 60k p/w+
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
To be fair our ridiculous wage budgets in them periods are all down to Wenger adopting a 'socialist wage structure' which was lunacy. The likes of Denilson, Squillaci & Park were on 60k p/w+


We're paying Ashley Young over £100k p/w by most accounts, know all about that sort of lunacy.
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
Arsenal and Wenger hate Chelsea and Mourinho because deep down they know they're the same. Wenger knows he's every bit as classless and undignified as Mourinho, he just won't admit it.

Arsenal also didn't have to sell their players to fund the stadium. The board chose to. The board still made sure they got paid.

Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
Yep, Wenger has called other colleagues 'voyeurs', 'specialists in failures' and tried to gouge and assistant managers eye out. Definitely.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 days ago
2,268
I think you're both undermining the quality of the Champions League (Which is the elite competition of Europe) while failing to understand that the premier league is an extremely competitive competition, as opposed to the SPL which has generally been dominated by 1 or 2 teams for the past however many years. I think qualifying for the champions league is an amazing acheivment. There's over 20 levels of English football and only the top 4 of the very top tear qualify for it.

Just qualifying for something isn't an achievement in any way when you're a club the size of Arsenal, you should be winning it. I know Wenger thinks finishing 4th is as good as winning a trophy but it really isn't. Also its no surprise that one of the top 4 teams in the country, Arsenal, are finishing in the top 4 is it?
WeddyOhWeddyWoo
13 years ago
4 years ago
35
Just qualifying for something isn't an achievement in any way when you're a club the size of Arsenal, you should be winning it. I know Wenger thinks finishing 4th is as good as winning a trophy but it really isn't. Also its no surprise that one of the top 4 teams in the country, Arsenal, are finishing in the top 4 is it?


That's my point. Why are we top 4? I'm inclined to believe that after changing stadiums, selling all our best players, and relying on 19 year olds. The fact that we are a top 4 team only serves to cement the fact that Wenger isn't just a standard manager maintaining a top 4 status quo. The fact that we are still top 4 is an achievement in of itself based off the challenges. And at least we're consistent, unlike Man Utd and Chelsea, who're both doing what Arsenal haven't done for nearly 20 years. Why? Because we have the best manager in the world, ever. Better than Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho combined.

If someone finished in the top 4 of the F1 grid every year for 20 years while the entire field changes around them, I don't think people would say that's just to be expected. Why is it just expected that Arsenal finish top 4? If a team won the league 20 years in a row would that somehow nullify the achievement just because it's been consistently achieved?
gaz12321
15 years ago
1 month ago
502
You're having a wind up right?? Arsenal have been a top 4 side for the best part of 20 years and the fact Wenger cannot take them on to the next level should have seen him lose his job, years ago!! He has had huge budgets available and refused to use them and strengthen the squad when they desperately needed it!! You can look at it that Wenger has kept Arsenal consistent, or you can look at it the Wenger has failed to progress a successful club, the latter is the correct one.

Time for a change at Arsenal, Wenger doesn't have the ability to progress the club in the manner it should be progressing, if he wins the league this year it'll be down to other clubs ineptitude more than Arsenal's capability. Wenger is a good manager, nothing more nothing less. Better than Pep, Klopp & Mourinho?? What a load of shit!!
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
We've only had huge budgets since the window in which Özil was signed
Carroll.
15 years ago
4 years ago
3,361
That's my point. Why are we top 4? I'm inclined to believe that after changing stadiums, selling all our best players, and relying on 19 year olds. The fact that we are a top 4 team only serves to cement the fact that Wenger isn't just a standard manager maintaining a top 4 status quo. The fact that we are still top 4 is an achievement in of itself based off the challenges. And at least we're consistent, unlike Man Utd and Chelsea, who're both doing what Arsenal haven't done for nearly 20 years. Why? Because we have the best manager in the world, ever. Better than Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho combined.

If someone finished in the top 4 of the F1 grid every year for 20 years while the entire field changes around them, I don't think people would say that's just to be expected. Why is it just expected that Arsenal finish top 4? If a team won the league 20 years in a row would that somehow nullify the achievement just because it's been consistently achieved?


Im out.

Btw the top four argument is a good argument. Both for and against though. One hand he's done well to keep them there as you can see with the likes of us, United and now Chelsea this year it's not that easy of a job. But on the other hand he should have won some more in the past 10 years, and getting just top 4 isn't good enough.
The Platypus
14 years ago
1 year ago
1,784
And at least we're consistent, unlike Man Utd and Chelsea, who're both doing what Arsenal haven't done for nearly 20 years. Why? Because we have the best manager in the world, ever. Better than Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho combined.


Oh, god, hahahahaha.
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
Yep, Wenger has called other colleagues 'voyeurs', 'specialists in failures' and tried to gouge and assistant managers eye out. Definitely.


No just years of institutionally berating and undermining referees.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
Because the refereeing standard in the Prem has been awful for as long as I can remember. There's been about 2 decent refs in the last 10 years and one of them handed out 3 yellow cards to the same person.
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
Yeah, trying to coerce an advantage is totally moral and befitting a classy club.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
Lmao how is criticising them giving an advantage?
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
Really?


By criticising a referees performance and dragging their name through the mud a referees career can suffer. Not getting the big matches, demotion, not going to the World Cup etc. Its beneficial for a referee to take the easy way out. Politicking.
Based Jorge
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,399
As a general rule of thumb, most big teams get decisions their way regardless. We also have one of the worst win %'s of all time when we've had Mike Dean in charge of our games too, who for some reason takes charge of most notable games in the Prem despite being one of the worst to ref in the history of the Prem.

We get games where refs are slightly bias, we get games when the ref is quite fair; like when Newcastle decided to kick the shit out of us for 90mins after Mitrovic rightly got red carded or completely abject refereeing performances like our loss to Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

It all goes around, if anything we've had the worst hands dealt in terms of refs managing in big clubs games tbf, even our unbeaten run ended due to a "rare" Wayne Rooney dive. But then again, it was canceled out by Pires diving all over the place against Portsmouth where we got a lucky penalty. Swings & roundabouts mate.

I for one would love it if Wenger ended Mike Dean's refereeing career and he had to resort being a dust bin man for the rest of his miserable life.

Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
Yeah exactly my point. Oxlade Chamberlain and Flamini did far, far worse fouls on Saturday then Mitrovic's.

But the referee didn't even consider sending either player off.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 days ago
2,268
Because we have the best manager in the world, ever. Better than Pep Guardiola, Jurgen Klopp and Jose Mourinho combined.

Best manager ever? What have you been smoking?
gaz12321
15 years ago
1 month ago
502
As a general rule of thumb, most big teams get decisions their way regardless. We also have one of the worst win %'s of all time when we've had Mike Dean in charge of our games too, who for some reason takes charge of most notable games in the Prem despite being one of the worst to ref in the history of the Prem.


Conspiracy Theorist...

My family always make me laugh (Villa fans) every game I go to with them no matter who the ref is they always come out with ''we will get nothing then he hates us', i'm like really? FFS they're just doing their job they get no benefit for showing preference to any side! Just they are humans and can make mistakes or see things from a different perspective, unlike the fans watching they don't have a bias towards either club! Sometimes it's just easy to blame the ref for everything, not the fact your club is shit haha!

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