Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
Villa were screwed the moment they decided to replace Benteke and Delph with what they did.

I know the ideas behind Moneyball and using sabremetrics to spot cheap players that can be superstars are good n all and work in other sports, but maybe its time to not use that philosophy.
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
People always forget Cleverley and Vlaar - Villa were 17th last year and Sherwood was always likely to be a shot in the arm sort of manager.

I also find it unlikely 'Tactics' Tim Sherwood was a massive fan of Jordan Amavi and Jodan Veretout and demanded they were brought in.

Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Good for Sunderland for doing the right thing. Sunderland won't tolerate anyone who won't pay agent fees. Sunderland are a honourable club.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
Villa were screwed the moment they decided to replace Benteke and Delph with what they did.

I know the ideas behind Moneyball and using sabremetrics to spot cheap players that can be superstars are good n all and work in other sports, but maybe its time to not use that philosophy.

You do realise that the Leicester side that currently tops the table was built on that philosophy, right?
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
You do realise that the Leicester side that currently tops the table was built on that philosophy, right?


I was about to reply a similar thing to him, but I don't know how true it is. There's no doubt they've done very well to identify good players playing in shit divisions and league and players looked over by bigger clubs but I don't know if theres anything at all to suggest they're using a moneybag or sabremetric like approach or just some very good, old fashioned scouting.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
You do realise that the Leicester side that currently tops the table was built on that philosophy, right?

That stuff's only for the poncey, rich clubs. If you want to avoid relegation you need to rely on some bloke watching from the stand, every proper football man knows that.

I was about to reply a similar thing to him, but I don't know how true it is. There's no doubt they've done very well to identify good players playing in shit divisions and league and players looked over by bigger clubs but I don't know if theres anything at all to suggest they're using a moneybag or sabremetric like approach or just some very good, old fashioned scouting.

Not got any links to hand but if I remember rightly, Leicester are one of the more analytics focused clubs in the Premier League, fairly certain Mahrez and Kante were identified, at least in part, because of it too.

Also, Sabremetrics != analytics.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
I was about to reply a similar thing to him, but I don't know how true it is. There's no doubt they've done very well to identify good players playing in shit divisions and league and players looked over by bigger clubs but I don't know if theres anything at all to suggest they're using a moneybag or sabremetric like approach or just some very good, old fashioned scouting.

When Arsenal poached one of their analytics guys earlier this year there was a bit of talk about how analytics focused Leicester are. As I understood it their scouting department and analytics department are one and the same.

Naturally though, this isn't the kind of thing clubs would spend a whole lot of time talking to the media about, got to protect those trade secrets after all.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 months ago
2,268
What has he been smoking

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/onesport/cps/624/cpsprodpb/E7F6/production/_89028395_waddle2.png

Waddle talking about Arsenal: "I can see them winning all of their remaining games but they have left themselves too much of a gap to claw back, not so much on Leicester as on Spurs."

So the gap to Spurs (5 points) is too big but the gap to Leicester (11 points) will get overturned?

BBC Article
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Schmeichel, Simpson, Huth, Morgan, Fuchs, Drinkwater, Ulloa, Vardy, Albrighton don't really seem like the work of a omnipotent scout.


Villa's problem seems that they let Martin O'Neill spend £100m or so and give out massive contracts to 'seasoned pro's' and then didn't achieve Champions League status. - Remember Luke Young, Marlon Harewood, Habib Beye, Steve Sidwell or Carlos Cuellar in an Aston Villa shirt?

They then gave the job to Houllier and McLeish, who lost their better players and still had a massive wage budget sucking most of the money out of the club.

Lambert then came in with the express orders to keep them up while reducing their wage budget. He brought in 8 first squad players that year for around £20m. Benteke and Vlaar about the only ones with a reasonable chance of being a success.A further £25m on cheap gambles in the following two years

Basically they spent all their money, and have been bringing in cheap players and hoping.

Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
Is John Carver the most un-self aware person in football?

Would be absolutely hilarious if Villa appointed him.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
Schmeichel, Simpson, Huth, Morgan, Fuchs, Drinkwater, Ulloa, Vardy, Albrighton don't really seem like the work of a omnipotent scout.

Not to me either. It does look like a pretty obvious case of scout(s) identifying under-valued/under-appreciated players though.
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
I sat and watched Danny Simpson for 2 years and he is fucking shocking though.

And I watch fucking shocking players on a regular basis so I'm very qualified to judge this.
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
You do realise that the Leicester side that currently tops the table was built on that philosophy, right?

Its obviously a key part, yeah, but Villa seemed to think cheap imports found with an emphasis on this side of things and the whole "replace quality with quantity" approach would work. Apparently not, given they're naturally going to have John Carver taking them towards League One this time next year. Then again, its probably easier to wonder if Aston Villa actually had a transfer policy last year, given all the shit they've bought.

Meanwhile, I've spotted all the pundits saying "Villa need a British manager", forgetting the origins of Sherwood, Lambert and McCleish.

Not that I care, given next season, we'll probably be there, given we have such a crap defensive unit.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
I sat and watched Danny Simpson for 2 years and he is fucking shocking though.

And I watch fucking shocking players on a regular basis so I'm very qualified to judge this.

Not saying he's great by any means but they're clearly getting something out of him. Kind of suggests Newcastle weren't getting the best out of him.
Based Jorge
10 years ago
3 years ago
1,399
Leicester are a side full of stereotypes Roy of the Rovers style

either that's worked for them or they're juicing
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
Not saying he's great by any means but they're clearly getting something out of him. Kind of suggests Newcastle weren't getting the best out of him.

To be fair there's been a long list of players in recent history who've done substantially better after leaving St. James' Park.

Not able to watch the game but we've sounded very much second best so far... eep.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 months ago
2,268
Payet really pushing Mahrez for player of the season, although Mahrez will probably edge it.
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Rafa very McClaren so far. - A step forward then five steps back when it matters - the midfield offering absolutely nothing.

Darl Karlow comfortably our best player - the referee theirs.


bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
To be fair there's been a long list of players in recent history who've done substantially better after leaving St. James' Park.

That thought did cross my mind as I was writing that
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
Real Madrid manager to relegation inside a year, poor Rafa.
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
Oh fuck me football is such a cunt.
Grimnir
16 years ago
2 months ago
2,727
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Real Madrid manager to relegation inside a year, poor Rafa.


Would like to see him sacked.

I'd take John Carver now if offered.
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
Would like to see him sacked.

I'd take John Carver now if offered.

Fucking come off it - if Carver had been given the job we'd be much closer to Villa.
Shedender
17 years ago
1 month ago
13,751
Oh fuck me football is such a cunt.

Pretty much confirms we'll be a Championship club next season, unless a miracle happens!
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
On the bright side. I'm glad it's out of the way early. Much rather go down now than on the last day. And at least we've done our best to take Sunderland with us I guess.


Anyway Benitez has taken one point from three games against Leicester, Norwich and Sunderland? He's been a disaster. An expensive disaster, like everything else Newcastle have done since getting rid of Pardew.
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Although I'm not sure what I'd prefer getting rid of Sissoko, Janmaat, Wijnaldum & Shelvey immediately. Or retaining them and stuttering to 15th in the Championship - while they talk about how much they would like to play Champions League football.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 months ago
2,268
Our record away at the 'big' teams is pathetic, not expecting that to change today.

Imagine if Rafa decided to stay after relegaion, going from managing against Barca to Burton in 12 months.
Grimnir
16 years ago
2 months ago
2,727
Although I'm not sure what I'd prefer getting rid of Sissoko, Janmaat, Wijnaldum & Shelvey immediately. Or retaining them and stuttering to 15th in the Championship - while they talk about how much they would like to play Champions League football.


Shelvey was immense for us in the Championship tbf.

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