Obtuse
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By Phoenix Arrow | Permalink | On 14 December 2012 - 22:20 PM
I'm not disputing that, I'm disputing what you said which is this.


Ah okay. Well I agree and disagree with you on your point. I have mentioned elsewhere that the tighter controls I would personally bring in would be psychiatric evaluation but I do think they people that are able to hold guns then they should be allowed to as a Right of sorts. I really like the ideal behind why America are allowed their Right to bear arms and it would only help here if only that area is adhered to.
Phoenix Arrow
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But calling it a right is like saying to every cunt in America "hey, you should get a gun". That's my point about the semantics of it. It was relevant when the document was writen as they were scared of the British but now it's just dangerous.
Obtuse
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By Phoenix Arrow | Permalink | On 14 December 2012 - 22:32 PM
But calling it a right is like saying to every cunt in America "hey, you should get a gun". That's my point about the semantics of it. It was relevant when the document was writen as they were scared of the British but now it's just dangerous.


I read somewhere that it is more to overthrow oppressive Governments but not sure how true it is.
Jamieandhisego
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The constitution is just a piece of fucking paper and means absolutely nothing if it fails to do its job, which is to provide security for the citizens of the country it forges from its ratification.
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By Obtuse | Permalink | On 14 December 2012 - 23:28 PM
I read somewhere that it is more to overthrow oppressive Governments but not sure how true it is.

Well yeah, but it's a stupid point anyway.

Ok, they have ready arms were they to rise up in revolution. But thats pretty much inconsequential when the only force they would be fighting against would be the US Army whose tanks, drones and air superiority make the fact that some people own hand guns and semi-automatic rifles an utter insignificance.

More likely is that they'd get themselves killed because they attack a vastly superior force and force them to defend themselves. Either way for a revolution in America to succeed you'd need the US Army not to act as a counter revolutionary force, shooting at them is going to ensure nothing more than more people die than would have needed to.
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By Obtuse | Permalink | On 14 December 2012 - 23:28 PM
I read somewhere that it is more to overthrow oppressive Governments but not sure how true it is.

Yes, but think about when that was written. They had just spent 8 years at war with their ruling country that was pretty much screwing them and the most advanced weapon was a gun. Really shit guns too. The right to bear arms is there to protect your ability to be able to form a militia and have a solid crack at winning a battle with the powers that be. The actual quote in the constitution after all is "a well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

That makes sense in the late 1700s. But now it's... I mean have however many guns you want, you're not going to overthrow the US government. I was going to explain why that's not possible but I find it too depressing to think that someone would need that explained to them. There's just no way. Not unless every other country in the world jumps on your team.

I'm sure I had a closing point in mind when I started this, but I forget now. I think you need to understand a little bit more about the difference between everyone has the RIGHT to bear arms and having that put in the document which founds your country and making guns legal as in Finland and Switzerland and places like that which you've never heard mass shooting happen in. The difference is entitlement, basically. Makes it harder to put regulations in place to stop people who shouldn't have guns getting guns because all the Republicans have to do is go "THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR GUNS, IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO HAVE GUNS AS AN AMERICAN" and then suddenly noone votes Democrat in the midwest.

For the record, I don't like guns because I'm from England so they scare me. I think they're pretty cool and some of my friend have those airsoft ones but if someone gave me a real one I'd feel very uncomfortable.
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Banning guns wouldn't work in America for the simple reason that there are far, far too many guns in circulation in the US already for it to make any difference.

Reducing the total amount of guns to the point where it would actually make a difference would take several decades, perhaps even more than a century.
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I read somewhere that Canada actually has more guns per head than the US, And yet you never hear of this sort of thing there.
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By Rick87 | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 05:02 AM
I read somewhere that Canada actually has more guns per head than the US, And yet you never hear of this sort of thing there.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country
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By The Platypus | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 06:16 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country


North Korea, so safe.
Deleted Account #151676
By The Platypus | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 06:16 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Clearly I have been misinformed. I can't beleive how far ahead the US is to the rest of the world in that table.

Also in this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I was surprised to see Switzerland and Finland in the top 20.
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By Rick87 | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 13:01 PM
Also in this list http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
I was surprised to see Switzerland and Finland in the top 20.

Don't know much about Switzerland, but in Finland I believe that's mostly due to a very high suicide rate.
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The real thing that should be looked at in America is providing easier access to mental help for people like this.
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By Phoenix Arrow | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 14:51 PM
Don't know much about Switzerland, but in Finland I believe that's mostly due to a very high suicide rate.

Its the same in Switzerland
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By Slashman X | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 14:58 PM
The real thing that should be looked at in America is providing easier access to mental help for people like this.


Someone finally hits the nail on the head
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So many statistics being banded about on twitter, makes you wonder if people actually think about shit before they tweet/retweet
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By King Luis | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 21:58 PM
So many statistics being banded about on twitter, makes you wonder if people actually think about shit before they tweet/retweet


Why should they? It's about stuff they find interesting
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By Obtuse | Permalink | On 15 December 2012 - 22:32 PM
Why should they? It's about stuff they find interesting

Because tweeting gun death rates per country is just stupid when you think about it. People just seem to be tweeting stuff in an attempt to sound informed rather than actually making sense of what they are tweeting.
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Morgan Freeman's Take on the recent shooting in the US

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."
King Luis
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He's spot on, would these things keep happening if the press didn't make them into some sort of celebrity. I dont see what naming the gunmen in cases like this achieves really
K3V0
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As much as I agree with that what else do you expect?

The media is a business, they want to make money, so something like this helps them do exactly that.
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By K3V0 | Permalink | On 16 December 2012 - 13:07 PM
As much as I agree with that what else do you expect?

The media is a business, they want to make money, so something like this helps them do exactly that.


But then you could just turn around and say places that sell guns are just trying to make money, where do you stop?
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http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/guns-health-care-82880109353.jpeg



Westboro Baptist Church planning on 'picketing' the funeral of the dead children
King Luis
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By Slashman X | Permalink | On 16 December 2012 - 13:11 PM
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/guns-health-care-82880109353.jpeg



Westboro Baptist Church planning on 'picketing' the funeral of the dead children


Another bunch of fucktards doing shit for publicity.
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By King Luis | Permalink | On 16 December 2012 - 23:09 PM
But then you could just turn around and say places that sell guns are just trying to make money, where do you stop?


Places that sell guns are just trying to make money, that won't stop because some nut job walks into a restaurant, cinema or school with a gun and shoots people. As I said I agree that the real problem is these nutjobs get their fame from this and it sets examples for other fuckers to come along and do it. Unfortunately you can't stop the media from reporting it and the majority of them won't change the way they do that either.
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By K3V0 | Permalink | On 16 December 2012 - 13:14 PM
Places that sell guns are just trying to make money, that won't stop because some nut job walks into a restaurant, cinema or school with a gun and shoots people. As I said I agree that the real problem is these nutjobs get their fame from this and it sets examples for other fuckers to come along and do it. Unfortunately you can't stop the media from reporting it and the majority of them won't change the way they do that either.


It can be regulated much more though, especially news outlets wrongly suggesting it was Ryan Lanza. Part of me hopes he sues whoever name him first for a shit ton of money but that probably won't happen.
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By King Luis | Permalink | On 16 December 2012 - 23:17 PM
It can be regulated much more though, especially news outlets wrongly suggesting it was Ryan Lanza. Part of me hopes he sues whoever name him first for a shit ton of money but that probably won't happen.


I'd imagine he could sue them for defamation.

You can't really regulate this though. The only way to stop it would be to ban the media from reporting about it and I'd imagine you can't do that, especially in a place like America with freedom of speech and all that. Again I agree with you, but I doubt they can do much to stop the media taking advantage of the situation and running story after story about it.
King Luis
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It'd be alot easier to regulate the media more than it would be to get guns of the streets imo
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Somone with 47 guns has been caught before they attempted a similar attack

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