English Premier League 2012/2013

Whether it should have stood or not, Van Persie's goal also shouldn't have counted due to the foul in the build up - unsure why nothing was made of that.

Also, the fact that Fergie got no punishment at all for the way he went on is a disgrace.

That being said, Utd will win the league - the way they keep going right until the final whistle is something Man City and Chelsea don't seem to do.

We played extremely well and deserved a draw though.

It makes me laugh how often United fans accused Arsenal of being a one-man team. Funny how things change, ey?

Not really.

For a start, Rooney is still our most important player.

Where would you be without van Persie's goals this season? As good a player as Rooney is, there's no way you can say with a straight face that without a player of van Persie's quality scoring on such a regular basis you'd still be seven points clear at Christmas. Your defending has been so awful this season you've needed him to drag you out of many a sticky situation already. I'm not attacking United fans, but having heard the 'one-man team' debate so often last season it makes me laugh how some United fans can't see the irony in how some of those accusing Arsenal of being over-reliant on one player now see their own team sharing a similar dependence on that same player.

How can you say that and then spend the next part of this thread arguing about a law you've shown you don't understand?

Nah.

The law as it is allows the game to flow well, there's many times in moves when players are in offside positions but inactive in one phase but onside and active in the next. Reverting to a law like that would lead to at least double the stoppages for offisde, and that's a waste of everyones time.

Here's a little diagram on interpretation of the law, which indicates that Dean was incorrect.

The bit about Evans holding Ba or vica/versa is also a stupid debate, if Ba wasn't standing in a offside posistion Evans couldn't be holding him therefore his being in that posistion is clearly inferring with Evans.

From his excellent central position, referee Mike Dean saw Cisse had not touched the ball, which he must do to be considered to be ‘interfering with play’ as the law requires.
For the goal to have been disallowed for offside, the Newcastle striker would have had to be deemed to be interfering with an opponent. This is nothing to do with affecting his positioning or making him play the ball. In this case it would have been standing in the line of vision between keeper David de Gea and the ball as Simpson crossed it.

So, unless a player touches the ball he is not interfering with play. It’s that simple and whether referees or assistants agree with that definition is irrelevant, they have to apply the law. Moreover, whether you or managers or pundits like it, that is how FIFA insist the offside law is applied.

You don't understand the offside law.

Here's a little diagram to show that Dean was correct.

It wasn't Ba, it was Cisse.

Graham Poll (and Mike Dean) probably know the offside rule tbf.

It was Ferguson who said it was Ba.

New International FA Board Decision 2

The definitions of elements of involvement in active play are as follows:

Interfering with play means playing or touching the ball passed or touched by a team-mate.
Interfering with an opponent means preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or movements or making a gesture or movement which, in the opinion of the referee, deceives or distracts an opponent.
Gaining an advantage by being in that position means playing a ball that rebounds to him off a post or the crossbar having been in an offside position or playing a ball that rebounds to him off an opponent having been in an offside position.

Graham Poll (and Mike Dean) probably know the offside rule tbf.

It was Ferguson who said it was Ba.

You're not a one man team if you're seven points clear at the top at Christmas.

Obviously.

Rooney's been injured, but at his best he's more instrumental to us than RVP. Welbeck's forms been iffy, Nani has been kidnapped and players like Valencia have struggled to hit the form they did last season, still though, Hernadez has scored 10 goals this season and Rooney has around 7 league goals.

He's obviously been the best player in a very strong attacking unit so far this season, but that's most definitely stretching the definition of a one man team.

Edit: Oh and Kagawa's two week injury has lasted so long I'd forgotten we'd signed him, yeah him.

I didn't say that you were, but you've become hugely reliant on his goals as we did last season. It frustrated me that van Persie's form somehow invalidated the great work of many of our other players - Walcott, Koscielny and Song are just three examples - and I said time and time again that our recovery from the start of our season was down to more than just one player's consistent run of goals. I'm not stupid or naive enough to believe that a team can be seven points clear because of one player and one player only, yet the situation between ourselves last season and United this season is not too dissimilar, and it's ironic that many of the fans who criticised Arsenal last season - not necessarily on this forum - now have the very same player taking on a similar role for their own team.

I'm actually in agreement with you about United not being a one-man team, so there's no need to convince me otherwise - I'm merely drawing comparisons between Robin van Persie's role at Arsenal last season and his role at United this season. Surely you can appreciate some similarity there, and the irony of some United fans labelling Arsenal as a 'one-man team' last season when van Persie's taken on a similar role this year?

Robin van Persie has scored 13 goals and assisted 6 of United's 48 Premier League goals this season - that's 39.58% of their goals he's been directly involved in this season. He scored 30 and assisted 9 of our 74 goals last season, which is 52.7%. Granted, we relied on him greater than United have done this season, but there's isn't that much difference between the two statistics. 40% of United's goals are still scored/ created by him, which is a significant number.

Again, I'm not trying to claim that United are a one-man team, merely display the hypocrisy of any United fan who labelled us as a one-man team last season but doesn't accept this season isn't a similar scenario.

I hate Goodison Park so much.

Last time Chelsea won there it took the best 3 goal combination you'll ever see

You ask why theres a debate still then you partake in said debate, good one

Fucking hell why is there a debate on the offside thing still? Cisse was in an offside position and was interfering with play: the rules are on FIFA's website, the Daily Mail isn't exactly an amazing source to say the decision was correct!

Fergie's comments in the press conference today: "He shoves a ref then makes a joke of it, then he's got the cheek to criticise me. It's unbelievable."

But then says the focus on spat with Dean is price of being at "most famous club in world" not a "wee club like Newcastle."

Pretty stupid of him to say, that 'wee club' took the lead against us three times.