Cymro
17 years ago
4 days ago
6,379
I am sure most have seen the announcement today about FM16 ...

If not check here: http://sortitoutsi.net/football-manager-2016

This is a thread for the discussion for the upcoming FM16 game and talk of its new features.

You can also Pre-Order the game here: https://shop.sortitoutsi.net/
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
Mid-November, god damn. Was planning on holding off some FM career moves till FM16, with release still 2 month off I may have to chuck some of my FM16 ideas into FM15 to kill time.

You guys should set up a daily thread for feature discussion/announcements/speculation, one for rivalries, FM touch, etc. Can't hurt to try and drum up some talk and discussion, incorporate some screenies in there and all that lark too. Could get some quality stuff rather than 'oh X sounds good'
lemmiwinksrm
13 years ago
3 weeks ago
263
Premium
Personally, the only version of FM I play is the full game on PC/laptop, and I don't play online or network. It seems like a lot of the developments which have been made are focused on different platforms and game versatility. I understand why, of course, as it draws in new customers, but I would much rather have seen more effort and focus being put into the development of the full game.

One thing which no game has sought to address is the sometimes baffling AI transfers and (in my opinion) FM15 was a pretty good iteration and the new output would have been a great opportunity to tackle this.
Jubez
12 years ago
2 years ago
1,073
Mid-November, god damn. Was planning on holding off some FM career moves till FM16, with release still 2 month off I may have to chuck some of my FM16 ideas into FM15 to kill time.

The game has always been released between late October and mid November, so the release date is not exactly surpsising. And remember that if you pre-order the game you will get to play the beta, which so far has always been released 2 weeks prior the full release. So that would be in the end of October. I personally pre-ordered the game the second it became available and I'm very excited about it, the Fantasy Draft specifically.

And I find people often complaining how there's not much new every year with the new FM release, but you guys have to remember that it's not an AAA title and that it's being released every single year so there's not very much of time to do all the improvements. Most of the sequels come with around 2 to 4 years apart and often with higher budget, so you often get a completely, or at least majorly, new gaming experience. It's not the case with Football Manager, like it's not with any Sports Games which are released every year, and a lot of people seems to forget that. If you compare every third Football Manager, which would be an average time for a normal sequel to be released, you can see some major changes and upgrades.

The multi-platform support is also very much understandable as it's a business after all and they are there to make money. And there is a lot of people who actually do play the game on other platform than a desktop computer so it's even further understandable that they also focus in that area. I don't personally play the game on anything else but a PC, but I find the new cross-platform save support an excellent addition. You can start the game at home and continue it while on the road and then keep playing once you are at home again. Sound very good to me, even though I won't be using it personally.

Overall, I'm probably more excited about a new FM than ever before and I'm a hardcore FM fan who pre-orders the game the day it becomes available, every single year. That said, FM has completely destroyed my social life as I seems to spend thousands of hours in it every year. That's the only negative thing about FM!
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
I took a look at the release dates of the past FMs a few year back and seeing they went Oct/Nov/Oct/Nov, with Fm15 coming out in November of last year I was hoping for an October FM16. I dig the fantasy draft too, if done right it could be a good gimmick for 1 off matches and also whole-season deals. Opens up the possibility of some fantasy football FM style competitions, all depends on the format SI head down.

I agree people moan too much on new features, the thing I find most frustrating personally is SI purposefully holding off on new features (which from a business standpoint I can understand, but as an FM player I'm sick of the limitations in scouting and training), but more-so the lack of care given to non-English leagues in the game. I'd love to see some new leagues, some working transfer dynamics at lower levels, working finances at lower levels, etc. I'll say one thing, the rep system for managers is the best its ever been in FM, hopefully they don't cock it up for FM16 like they cocked it up a few year back after getting it right one year.

I'll get it on release and play the shit out of it. Always do. FM will forever be the greatest killer of time, only watching Malcolm in the Middle can rival it in that regard.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
The game has always been released between late October and mid November, so the release date is not exactly surpsising. And remember that if you pre-order the game you will get to play the beta, which so far has always been released 2 weeks prior the full release. So that would be in the end of October. I personally pre-ordered the game the second it became available and I'm very excited about it, the Fantasy Draft specifically.

And I find people often complaining how there's not much new every year with the new FM release, but you guys have to remember that it's not an AAA title and that it's being released every single year so there's not very much of time to do all the improvements. Most of the sequels come with around 2 to 4 years apart and often with higher budget, so you often get a completely, or at least majorly, new gaming experience. It's not the case with Football Manager, like it's not with any Sports Games which are released every year, and a lot of people seems to forget that. If you compare every third Football Manager, which would be an average time for a normal sequel to be released, you can see some major changes and upgrades.

The multi-platform support is also very much understandable as it's a business after all and they are there to make money. And there is a lot of people who actually do play the game on other platform than a desktop computer so it's even further understandable that they also focus in that area. I don't personally play the game on anything else but a PC, but I find the new cross-platform save support an excellent addition. You can start the game at home and continue it while on the road and then keep playing once you are at home again. Sound very good to me, even though I won't be using it personally.

Overall, I'm probably more excited about a new FM than ever before and I'm a hardcore FM fan who pre-orders the game the day it becomes available, every single year. That said, FM has completely destroyed my social life as I seems to spend thousands of hours in it every year. That's the only negative thing about FM!

Miles, is that you?

I took a look at the release dates of the past FMs a few year back and seeing they went Oct/Nov/Oct/Nov, with Fm15 coming out in November of last year I was hoping for an October FM16. I dig the fantasy draft too, if done right it could be a good gimmick for 1 off matches and also whole-season deals. Opens up the possibility of some fantasy football FM style competitions, all depends on the format SI head down.

I agree people moan too much on new features, the thing I find most frustrating personally is SI purposefully holding off on new features (which from a business standpoint I can understand, but as an FM player I'm sick of the limitations in scouting and training), but more-so the lack of care given to non-English leagues in the game. I'd love to see some new leagues, some working transfer dynamics at lower levels, working finances at lower levels, etc. I'll say one thing, the rep system for managers is the best its ever been in FM, hopefully they don't cock it up for FM16 like they cocked it up a few year back after getting it right one year.

The revamped analysis tab is a great example of that. It's needed work for years, even just simple stuff, but they've only done anything about it when they can chuck the Prozone deal in there too. Personally I'd settle for a release with a few new features, better research in South American and Germany and less fucking about with the UI for the sake of it. That and having a Player Search which does't lag like fuck every time you add a condition.
lemmiwinksrm
13 years ago
3 weeks ago
263
Premium
I agree with you both, I think people do complain too much. I'm still going to buy FM16, I'm still massively excited about it, I'm just a little bit disappointed that, whilst I appreciate the utility and business sense of the improvements, none of them will really improve the gaming experience for me personally. And, in my opinion, the games should be completely based around exactly what I want to see on them.

So whilst I'm disappointed, it's disappointed versus excitement in the same way it would be if I miraculously pulled Kate Beckinsale but it turned out she had webbed toes. Pretty minor.
Tyrion Lannister
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,536
Banned
FM16 is offering create a new team, put yourself in a team, create a team of fantasy players, etc.
correct me if im wrong, but isn't that already available in the editor??
cap that with improved manager graphics and i can honestly say i am about as impressed as a tramp finding a penny...
Jubez
12 years ago
2 years ago
1,073
FM16 is offering create a new team, put yourself in a team, create a team of fantasy players, etc.
correct me if im wrong, but isn't that already available in the editor??
cap that with improved manager graphics and i can honestly say i am about as impressed as a tramp finding a penny...

Yes it's always been available through the editor, but most of the average players are really not familiar with it and a lot of people don't even know it exists. I think it's a great addition to the game and makes creating your own team simple and easy and anyone can now do it without knowing anything about the editor. It must be a lot faster to do it through the new system as well. And since it's a feature that's basically already in the game, I doubt it has taken too much time to make that simple tool for FM16 so I see no harm done there.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
Yes it's always been available through the editor, but most of the average players are really not familiar with it and a lot of people don't even know it exists. I think it's a great addition to the game and makes creating your own team simple and easy and anyone can now do it without knowing anything about the editor. It must be a lot faster to do it through the new system as well. And since it's a feature that's basically already in the game, I doubt it has taken too much time to make that simple tool for FM16 so I see no harm done there.

Do you think SI are capable of making mistakes with FM?
lemmiwinksrm
13 years ago
3 weeks ago
263
Premium
Yes it's always been available through the editor, but most of the average players are really not familiar with it and a lot of people don't even know it exists. I think it's a great addition to the game and makes creating your own team simple and easy and anyone can now do it without knowing anything about the editor. It must be a lot faster to do it through the new system as well. And since it's a feature that's basically already in the game, I doubt it has taken too much time to make that simple tool for FM16 so I see no harm done there.


Without wishing to jump the gun, if this is a precursor to them either not releasing the Editor, or charging for it, it will generate a lot of ill feeling.
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
The revamped analysis tab is a great example of that. It's needed work for years, even just simple stuff, but they've only done anything about it when they can chuck the Prozone deal in there too. Personally I'd settle for a release with a few new features, better research in South American and Germany and less fucking about with the UI for the sake of it. That and having a Player Search which does't lag like fuck every time you add a condition.


I'm interested in their Prozone deal, hopefully its more than a shitty mutual advertising link-up and brings some real value. I'd love to go Moneyball up in this mug. The one place where FM would be better off being more like a spreadsheet is in the player stats department (not attributes). We could pivot table all sorts of great stuff, key passes vs total passes, key passes in the opposition box, cross completion vs crosses attempted, etc, etc. Combine that with scouting reports that actually take tactics into account (this player is a good crosser, we have a tall ST, our current RM has a poor cross completion, our tactics call for wing play, this lad would be a good tactical fit). Infact you could split the scout reports into;

Transfer and contract
Personality
Attribute analysis
Tactical fit
Current squad needs fit
Misc.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
I'm interested in their Prozone deal, hopefully its more than a shitty mutual advertising link-up and brings some real value. I'd love to go Moneyball up in this mug. The one place where FM would be better off being more like a spreadsheet is in the player stats department (not attributes). We could pivot table all sorts of great stuff, key passes vs total passes, key passes in the opposition box, cross completion vs crosses attempted, etc, etc. Combine that with scouting reports that actually take tactics into account (this player is a good crosser, we have a tall ST, our current RM has a poor cross completion, our tactics call for wing play, this lad would be a good tactical fit). Infact you could split the scout reports into;

Transfer and contract
Personality
Attribute analysis
Tactical fit
Current squad needs fit
Misc.

I'm interested in the Prozone deal and all the potential for advanced analysis too.

But I find it more interesting how good an example this is of SI's handling of actual improvements and new features. The number of issues and simple improvements to the analysis tab that have been evident for years is ridiculous. Yet nothing has happened until Prozone were involved. Instead we've had UI changes and editor features hyped up as major additions despite offering little in the way of improvement and in some cases actually serving as a negative (the massive, fuck-off sidebar).
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
I'm interested in the Prozone deal and all the potential for advanced analysis too.

But I find it more interesting how good an example this is of SI's handling of actual improvements and new features. The number of issues and simple improvements to the analysis tab that have been evident for years is ridiculous. Yet nothing has happened until Prozone were involved. Instead we've had UI changes and editor features hyped up as major additions despite offering little in the way of improvement and in some cases actually serving as a negative (the massive, fuck-off sidebar).


I felt exactly the same about the 3D engine, seeing this stuff about CUSTOMISING THE WAY YOUR MANAGER LOOKS does absolutely nothing for me. Maybe the kids are hype for it, I'm not, but then again, I'm not the SI target demographic. I've played FM since CM, I don't watch the matches in 2D or 3D, I play in the non-major leagues and I just want hardcore game mechanic improvements.

Right about now in my life I have time for FM, so I'll always buy it regardless. SI want to attract the new customers who will buy the game every year for the next decade. What's gonna do that? All this crap with Sky Sports, the 3D lark, trying to make FM into an accepted real-life statistical tool, aesthetic tweaks, app ability, social media connectivity, etc. My FM aspirations and SIs P&L will never match up, doesn't bother me as much as it did. Business is business, SI can't go fixing and improving everything they know needs doing, will kill them in the long-term.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
I felt exactly the same about the 3D engine, seeing this stuff about CUSTOMISING THE WAY YOUR MANAGER LOOKS does absolutely nothing for me. Maybe the kids are hype for it, I'm not, but then again, I'm not the SI target demographic. I've played FM since CM, I don't watch the matches in 2D or 3D, I play in the non-major leagues and I just want hardcore game mechanic improvements.

Right about now in my life I have time for FM, so I'll always buy it regardless. SI want to attract the new customers who will buy the game every year for the next decade. What's gonna do that? All this crap with Sky Sports, the 3D lark, trying to make FM into an accepted real-life statistical tool, aesthetic tweaks, app ability, social media connectivity, etc. My FM aspirations and SIs P&L will never match up, doesn't bother me as much as it did. Business is business, SI can't go fixing and improving everything they know needs doing, will kill them in the long-term.

Sure, they're always going to have to try and find a balance, that's fair enough. The problem is just how much they are letting slip and what they are choosing to focus on instead. I don't seriously expect them to make all the same choices that I would in their position, but it'd be great if they could focus a little less on the daft stuff, and more on improving existing features and not breaking the stuff already in place.
Viggonat
10 years ago
4 months ago
1
Premium
If I preorder the game @ sortioutsi, will I get beta access or will I have to wait until release day to play?
lemmiwinksrm
13 years ago
3 weeks ago
263
Premium
I've just seen the feature that players who have retired can return for former testimonials. I think that is a nice touch - it's superficial, sure, but it's one of the little things that make the game enjoyable to play.
Eric Portapotty
14 years ago
1 week ago
3,322
I feel like three's much more fluff being introduced than previous FMs, I'm definitely fine without having to configure the look of my avatar, what I want is playability of longterm saves and more leagues (AFRICA).

Though depending on what the setpiece revamp will turn out to be that could be very appealing.
TomDixon77
17 years ago
1 year ago
911
I doubt you're ever going to see more (official) leagues added, unless it's something big like the premier league/bundesliga, or somewhere that gives them a big new market, like Japan. It's not worth the time, money and effort to get licenses for obscure leagues around the world, when the only people who are really interested can just enable them in the editor anyway.

I've seen lots of posts along the lines of 'is that it?' or 'SI should release this as an update and only do new games every two years', which both miss a couple of fairly important points:

1. How much new stuff is left to put in? Especially stuff that you could put on the box to try and entice new customers in? The few things that are left (that aren't just refinements of existing functionality, like more in depth training, etc.) aren't just going to be thrown out into the first release possible. Firstly because that's killing the goose that lays the golden egg, and secondly can you imagine how much havoc would be caused throwing four or five brand new pieces of functionality into the wild would cause? It'd be at least four patches before everything was running even remotely normally.

2. SI have one revenue stream, Football Manager. They couldn't survive financially without releasing a game every year.
.verse
12 years ago
3 months ago
871
As I've gotten older the inclination to buy the game has dwindled over the years. A lot of that has to do with the direction the game has taken and a lot of what made CM/FM so appealing has been somewhat lost in the bright lights of flashy graphics and tedious gimmicky changes. SI have lost that balance between an engrossing simulator and a fun hassle free (besides when your team is in a slump) experience which was had in the earlier days.

To play the game these days is more or less a full time job, more so if you wish to actually progress through a few years. I missed a few of the versions prior to FM15 because the appeal just wasn't there. I gave FM15 a chance and while I did start a few games and got through a couple of seasons, I still found myself not as engrossed as I would normally be. Classic mode was certainly appealing to myself, and it's been the only mode I tend to play, so it's good to see a more simplified option once more. However, it still has that arcade like feel with the content purchase and whatnot. I'm curious to see what changes are had with the newly named Touch mode which has come in to replace Classic mode. But will it be enough to warrant me spending money on the game initially? Unlikely. Unfortunately, my laptop doesn't have a CD-ROM drive so I'm unable to revert back to some of the older releases to relive. But I feel SI should look back on their roots a little more and realise what made the game what it was. I think a little bit of that has been lost as the franchise has grown.
Jubez
12 years ago
2 years ago
1,073
To play the game these days is more or less a full time job, more so if you wish to actually progress through a few years.


It doesn't take much, if any more time than it took before. The game just used to have very limited amount of leagues and a lot smaller database back in the days, which made it run faster. You can still do that, but you obviously prefer the more realistic FM world with a bigger database and the cost of that is the longer loading times, which indeed means that playing more than couple of seasons will take quite a bit of time. In my current save that I started as an unemployed manager I have spent 12 days, 7 hours and 34 minutes and I'm in december 2021 (started in december 2014). So that's nearly 2 days for a season, but I'm also playing with like 100 divisions and with the Huge database. And I just break 1500 hours mark today and I'm now at 1506 hours total, which is really sad, especially since I didn't play the game nearly at all for around 2 months or so.
.verse
12 years ago
3 months ago
871
It doesn't take much, if any more time than it took before. The game just used to have very limited amount of leagues and a lot smaller database back in the days, which made it run faster. You can still do that, but you obviously prefer the more realistic FM world with a bigger database and the cost of that is the longer loading times, which indeed means that playing more than couple of seasons will take quite a bit of time. In my current save that I started as an unemployed manager I have spent 12 days, 7 hours and 34 minutes and I'm in december 2021 (started in december 2014). So that's nearly 2 days for a season, but I'm also playing with like 100 divisions and with the Huge database. And I just break 1500 hours mark today and I'm now at 1506 hours total, which is really sad, especially since I didn't play the game nearly at all for around 2 months or so.

I'm well aware of all that, I've been playing the game since CM 00/01. I understand how it all works. The game these days still takes far longer to progress through than it previously did. Not just because of database sizes etc, but because of how intricate everything also is now. Features like press conferences and the interactive portions, etc. That's not to say there aren't ways to get through the games quicker, FMC is a good option for that (and one I tend to use now). The downside is that it's slightly too arcade-like in areas.

For those who study/work full time etc. That's where it takes too long. The casual player has somewhat been forgotten about, which was the point I was mainly making and produced the comparison to it being a full-time job.
gwynvyd
15 years ago
9 months ago
86
What leagues are now official from SI, any new ones from last year?
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
What leagues are now official from SI, any new ones from last year?


None announced so far, wouldn't expect any either. I'd kill for some proper representation for North and West Africa, as well as the NASL in America.
TomDixon77
17 years ago
1 year ago
911
You aren't going to get the first couple, as the depth of player knowledge that they've got almost certainly isn't sufficient to put the leagues in properly (as opposed to via the editor). You might not get the NASL as they've got a fairly acrimonious relationship with MLS, who SI have an official license with
TomDixon77
17 years ago
1 year ago
911
And also, cost versus return comes into it above all else.
Sheriff Skacel
9 years ago
1 month ago
940
Premium
You aren't going to get the first couple, as the depth of player knowledge that they've got almost certainly isn't sufficient to put the leagues in properly (as opposed to via the editor). You might not get the NASL as they've got a fairly acrimonious relationship with MLS, who SI have an official license with


If they can chuck in the Gibraltan second division and the third tier in Indonesia I'm sure they can bang in the top flights of some of the biggest African leagues, especially Tunisia and Egypt. It can be a solid mix of real players and regens if they really are that short.

I'd say there is potential for return, there's a tech scramble going on in Africa, the tech footprint is being laid down. Ride the wave SI. Give me my African adventure.
Cymro
17 years ago
4 days ago
6,379
Don't think it as 'banging' is as simple as that to be honest. As it has been eluded to above. Their is a cost, and likelihood is that there's leagues may well have been approached by SI but simply want to much money. Look I would love more leagues in the game, especially if they were licensed too. Until someone budges then I highly doubt any other leagues will be included.
Tyrion Lannister
11 years ago
4 years ago
1,536
Banned
FM16 only appeals to me mainly because its a new game with players at the right clubs.
BBBuddha
13 years ago
2 weeks ago
3
Has sortitoutsi started given out codes yet because i have not recieved mine after preorder

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