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Discussion
Conclusion to the below:

Since there does not seem to be any major objection in principle, I am proposing that from this point on @ducc's proposal is to be followed; namely:

  • Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
  • Everyone should strive to make all new cuts in the larger size, but if the source image is simply not large enough, 180x180 will do as well.

  • I hope that everybody will follow this new system as much as possible so that the overall quality of the megapack continues to keep improving. I have seen that some cutters, but not all, are following this system already and I would like everybody to do so in the coming days.

    I will leave cutters to deal with sources as they wish, we're all adults after all, but I personally think it would be a pity if some of the excellent sources being requested are cut in 180x180 when 250x250 would also be possible.



    Original post:
    Following this conversation with @Vinceultras42 and @ducc, I would like to see the opinion of the community as to whether we should consider starting to produce cuts in 250x250 instead of the present 180x180.

    The present system started way back in 2008, when the SI default size was 180x180, large monitors and large resolutions were not as common as today and HQ sources were not as easy to come by. Now that things have moved on, would it make sense to increase the default cut-out size accordingly?

    I am listing some of the pros and cons of this decision to stimulate discussion.

    Benefits:
    Better and clearer overall quality of cuts
    Good-quality sources providing higher-quality cuts
    Higher resolution users enjoy a better standard of cut

    Drawbacks:
    Poor and lower-resolution sources would see a bigger difference in quality than at present
    The existing megapack cuts would either need to be resized (thus leading to an overall loss in quality) or updated to the bigger dimensions (a lot of work) or retained as is (thus leading to different megapack sizes).
    Most of the sources from which megapack cuts are produced are generally not high quality and this decision would ensure that lower-quality sources would be even more of a significantly lower level than at present.


    I'm tagging the regular requesters and cutters to gauge feedback as to the way forward. If you're not part of the below group, you're of course still welcome to contribute to the discussion and that doesn't in any way mean your contribution isn't valued.

    While we're all here, I'd be interested to see if there's any suggestion as to changes or improvements to the megapack, the request system or anything else you may think is relevant or important to its continued improvement

    @bakizp @Baja @Swedie @marrtac @HRiddick @pololuxury @diogoamaral @maxtod77 @rekooner2 @Tatavo @cksrl1000 @delhomme @Lebohang Mokoena @arryst @fumuj @pololuxury @krissmed @ArturM @katalonczyk22 @Boudewijn @Rowan

    «This comment has been edited»
    Not a big fan of this idea personally! If the megapack was starting now as a brand new project then it would make perfect sense to use a higher resolution, but the time it would take to resize the huge amount of cuts we have now, only to result in nearly 200,000 poor quality images, would really not be worth the effort. Plus as you mentioned above, sometimes it is possible to work with poorer quality sources to produce good cuts at 180x180 but this would be nearer impossible at 250x250 or bigger.
    Different sizes sounds a reasonable idea. We can start to cut 250x250 but all the images in the MP could be 180x180 until we improve it. It will be a long work and maybe lots cuts can't be 250x250, so if we switch to 250x250, maybe we need to include a bit more of shirt in some cuts...

    But If a pic is high queality and a 250x250 cut can be done, why not?
    https://i.imgur.com/3kNqZ2l.jpg
    This is a test with a low quality photo

    https://s13.postimg.org/fszhcetjb/833693.jpg

    180x180
    https://s13.postimg.org/4tea0u5p3/833693.png

    250x250
    https://s13.postimg.org/nlq54f9t3/833693_copia.png
    Different sizes sounds a reasonable idea. We can start to cut 250x250 but all the images in the MP could be 180x180 until we improve it. It will be a long work and maybe lots cuts can't be 250x250, so if we switch to 250x250, maybe we need to include a bit more of shirt in some cuts...

    But If a pic is high queality and a 250x250 cut can be done, why not?


    I have the same opinion
    After all depends on the source to get quality images

    Personally I use a lot of 250x250 on MB Media or Official Club and Zimbio Media

    https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000hPl8LdXxWCI/fit=3276x4914/g=G0000EQ0x9x0auQg/GettyImages-843659256-master.jpg

    Also the basic one included in the game or I find a lot of missing according to the clubs

    The 180x180 mix with 250x250 does not really bother

    Version 180x180
    http://i67.tinypic.com/2lc8qo2.png

    Version 250x250
    http://i63.tinypic.com/2zfvmrp.png


    «This comment has been edited»
    hello me I think we must stay at 180-180 is better better image quality

    «This comment has been edited»
    And my vote goes to 180x180
    https://i.imgur.com/7TeM2re.jpg
    I think the it's best to start producing 250x250 cuts, and make a seperate pack and resizing them to 180x180, but also keep producing 180x180 cuts of the smaller source images. Then we would have a smaller, higher quality mp and a larger, lower quality mp
    1) Bigger is better in this case.
    2) Imperfections like snow,dirt,etc. will be a bit more visible.
    3) Cuts from bad sources will still look bad,it's not that important.
    3) Resizing old cuts - NO.
    4) Shirt (collar) policy should stay as it is,we are working with squares,not rectangles.Bigger square doesn't mean there's more room for shirt,the goal is to have bigger faces.

    So,I'm in for this

    P.S.: Jump from 180 to 250 is not that drastic.


    «This comment has been edited»
    After all depends on the source to get quality images

    Personally I use a lot of 250x250 on MB Media or Official Club and Zimbio Media

    https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000hPl8LdXxWCI/fit=3276x4914/g=G0000EQ0x9x0auQg/GettyImages-843659256-master.jpg

    Also the basic one included in the game or I find a lot of missing according to the clubs

    The 180x180 mix with 250x250 does not really bother
    Are pics on MB Media not heavily watermarked?
    Version 180x180
    http://i67.tinypic.com/2lc8qo2.png

    Version 250x250
    http://i63.tinypic.com/2zfvmrp.png
    @krissmed
    After icons MP it would be nightmare to have 2 more separated Megapacks.If any cuter wants 250x250 he should make them as that and use in the same size for himself but cuts for main Megapack should stay as 180x180...Also I'm disagree with @bakizp ,we have a lot low quality cuts but for example smaller sources (just head) from 150x150 could produce very good 180x180 cut,but it would be bad 250x250 cut.
    https://i.imgur.com/7TeM2re.jpg
    ...Also I'm disagree with @bakizp ,we have a lot low quality cuts but for example smaller sources (just head) from 150x150 could produce very good 180x180 cut,but it would be bad 250x250 cut.

    Example from futhead would be nice to be seen side by side.

    «This comment has been edited»
    I have only very occasionally contributed some cuts to the pack, but here are a couple of thoughts.

  • SI's standard for FM18 is 250x250. There has been some back and forth in the size however. In FM16 (and before I would guess) it was 180x180, in FM17 it was 360x360, and now it is the 250x250 for FM18. What the standard will be in FM19 is not known, but it probably won't be smaller than 250x250.

  • Using the default FM18 skin, it really does not matter what size the person images are – the skin will resize them to fit the space wether it means making the image smaller or larger (I have not paid enough attention to confirm this as true for every single screen, but it would appear to be so). Still, it is not known if SI will always provide skins that behave this way, so a uniformity of size in the pack is required to a certain extent. Otherwise people's heads migh appear to be of wildly different sizes, or pics might even begin to overlap other elements on the screens (or just be cut of and not displayed in their entirety).

  • As can be seen from Vinceultras42's screenshots, some fan-made skins do not resize the images on all screens – a quality which might emerge in SI's skins as well.

  • Is there value in having all the images of the same uniform size as files sitting on a hard drive? Maybe? In any case it, it would require some work to resize larger images to 180x180, but there would be no quality loss compared to the other 180x180 pics (if uniformity of size was desired at some later point).


  • With the above on mind I would suggest the following flexible system. You decide if it has any merits.

    1. Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    2. Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    3. Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.
    DVX Logos
    High Quality FM Logopack
    Something that might also be of interest is that the @2x size system better known in connection with logopacks works for person images as well. Typically the @2x images are twice as large as the normal images.

  • If you have image 12345.png and [email protected] in the same folder, the [email protected] will be displayed in place of the 12345.png if the in-game zoom is 125% or higher.

  • Or

  • If you have image 12345.png in a folder and image 12345.png in its subfolder called @2x, the subfolder image will be displayed in place of the first 12345.png if the in-game zoom is 125% or higher.


  • «This comment has been edited»
    DVX Logos
    High Quality FM Logopack
    4) Shirt (collar) policy should stay as it is,we are working with squares,not rectangles.Bigger square doesn't mean there's more room for shirt,the goal is to have bigger faces.


    It's not that easy. Sure big teams have good sources to do 250x250 or even bigger, but there's lots of teams where making it wouldn't be possible unless you add some shirt, specially in staff pics. Look this one for example. It had to add lots of shirt for make it suitable for 180x180.
    https://i.imgur.com/3kNqZ2l.jpg
    It's not that easy. Sure big teams have good sources to do 250x250 or even bigger, but there's lots of teams where making it wouldn't be possible unless you add some shirt, specially in staff pics. Look this one for example. It had to add lots of shirt for make it suitable for 180x180.

    Chance to find example in megapack like that is 1:10000 .If it was requested,it should have been rejected like many other ones in the past.

    «This comment has been edited»
    This is quite an interesting topic, I agree that nowadays HQ sources are much more easier to find therefore a 250x250 resolution makes a lot of sense going forward, considering the technology is also moving towards high-definition display.
    The problem is the 200k pictures that will now need improvement cuts, and that means a lot of work...


    Not a big fan of this idea personally! If the megapack was starting now as a brand new project then it would make perfect sense to use a higher resolution, but the time it would take to resize the huge amount of cuts we have now, only to result in nearly 200,000 poor quality images, would really not be worth the effort. Plus as you mentioned above, sometimes it is possible to work with poorer quality sources to produce good cuts at 180x180 but this would be nearer impossible at 250x250 or bigger.

    My proposal to resize all the existing MP images wasn't meant entirely seriously, was more to spark conversation. I don't think it'd make sense to decrease the quality of the MP in the way it would using this method.




    Different sizes sounds a reasonable idea. We can start to cut 250x250 but all the images in the MP could be 180x180 until we improve it. It will be a long work and maybe lots cuts can't be 250x250, so if we switch to 250x250, maybe we need to include a bit more of shirt in some cuts...

    But If a pic is high queality and a 250x250 cut can be done, why not?

    My main idea would have been to have all images in 250x250 from this point on, but doing so would rule out some sources from being cut. I don't mind including an extra 4-5 pixels of shirt if the source quality is poor, but having 20 pixels or so to compensate for poor source quality isn't the solution imo.




    After all depends on the source to get quality images

    Personally I use a lot of 250x250 on MB Media or Official Club and Zimbio Media

    https://ssl.c.photoshelter.com/img-get2/I0000hPl8LdXxWCI/fit=3276x4914/g=G0000EQ0x9x0auQg/GettyImages-843659256-master.jpg


    Also the basic one included in the game or I find a lot of missing according to the clubs

    The 180x180 mix with 250x250 does not really bother

    Version 180x180
    http://i67.tinypic.com/2lc8qo2.png

    Version 250x250
    http://i63.tinypic.com/2zfvmrp.png

    Only a very small proportion of sources and requests will be as good as that Kante image, though. Most will be much smaller, though, and we should keep that in mind.

    As for your in-game screenshots, that's a feature of that particular skin. Most skins don't display player faces according to the dimensions they're in but in a set size. The only difference for these skins in terms of the megapack would be that 250x250 cuts appear much crisper than 180x180 cuts for obvious reasons.



    I take note of @rekooner2's and @Baja's wish to stay with 180x180, although I have to say that rekooner's statement that 180x180 is better image quality when compared to 250x250 doesn't make a lot of sense imo. Good sources would provide good quality cuts even in 250x250.




    I think the it's best to start producing 250x250 cuts, and make a seperate pack and resizing them to 180x180, but also keep producing 180x180 cuts of the smaller source images. Then we would have a smaller, higher quality mp and a larger, lower quality mp

    I can see where you're coming from, but it's already hard enough for me to keep track of the MP as it is and I definitely don't have the time and inclination to run a parallel poorer version of the megapack.




    1) Bigger is better in this case.
    2) Imperfections like snow,dirt,etc. will be a bit more visible.
    3) Cuts from bad sources will still look bad,it's not that important.
    3) Resizing old cuts - NO.
    4) Shirt (collar) policy should stay as it is,we are working with squares,not rectangles.Bigger square doesn't mean there's more room for shirt,the goal is to have bigger faces.

    So,I'm in for this

    P.S.: Jump from 180 to 250 is not that drastic.

    Agreed in all cases




    I have only very occasionally contributed some cuts to the pack, but here are a couple of thoughts.

  • SI's standard for FM18 is 250x250. There has been some back and forth in the size however. In FM16 (and before I would guess) it was 180x180, in FM17 it was 360x360, and now it is the 250x250 for FM18. What the standard will be in FM19 is not known, but it probably won't be smaller than 250x250.

  • Using the default FM18 skin, it really does not matter what size the person images are – the skin will resize them to fit the space wether it means making the image smaller or larger (I have not paid enough attention to confirm this as true for every single screen, but it would appear to be so). Still, it is not known if SI will always provide skins that behave this way, so a uniformity of size in the pack is required to a certain extent. Otherwise people's heads migh appear to be of wildly different sizes, or pics might even begin to overlap other elements on the screens (or just be cut of and not displayed in their entirety).

  • As can be seen from Vinceultras42's screenshots, some fan-made skins do not resize the images on all screens – a quality which might emerge in SI's skins as well.

  • Is there value in having all the images of the same uniform size as files sitting on a hard drive? Maybe? In any case it, it would require some work to resize larger images to 180x180, but there would be no quality loss compared to the other 180x180 pics (if uniformity of size was desired at some later point).


  • With the above on mind I would suggest the following flexible system. You decide if it has any merits.

    1. Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    2. Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    3. Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.

    I agree with everything here, mostly this proposal. How would everybody react if this were the way forward?





    Chance to find example in megapack like that is 1:10000 .If it was requested,it should have been rejected like many other ones in the past.

    @Lebohang Mokoena, I have to say I agree with baki here. I always say that having a poor cut is better than having no cut at all, but one has to draw a line at some point. Some people quite simply don't have sources good enough available online to provide a good cut Or at least, being a bit optimistic, not yet





    This is quite an interesting topic, I agree that nowadays HQ sources are much more easier to find therefore a 250x250 resolution makes a lot of sense going forward, considering the technology is also moving towards high-definition display.
    The problem is the 200k pictures that will now need improvement cuts, and that means a lot of work...

    Encapsulates my initial feelings very well and concisely
    This is quite an interesting topic, I agree that nowadays HQ sources are much more easier to find therefore a 250x250 resolution makes a lot of sense going forward, considering the technology is also moving towards high-definition display.
    The problem is the 200k pictures that will now need improvement cuts, and that means a lot of work...

    I think we all agree that redoing the old cuts is out of question.If we adopt this new format,we just continue like nothing happened.

    1. Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    2. Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    3. Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.

    I fully agree on this
    I'm putting @ducc's proposal in its own post to ensure it doesn't get lost in the wall of words up there:

    With the above on mind I would suggest the following flexible system. You decide if it has any merits.

    Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.

    This has the benefit of allowing the present cuts and also taking into consideration poorer sources, while at the same time allowing higher-resolution sources to be cut in a manner more fitting their higher quality.

    Unless you use skins like the one in the Vinceultras42 screenshot further up the thread, this way won't affect anybody's game that much other than some people having higher-quality cuts than others, which is already the case at present in cases where some people's cuts come from poorer sources.


    What do you all think? Would this be a suitable compromise to ensure that the megapack keeps going strong?
    I think we need to start now in 250x250, because it will likely stay that way, and we'll need to get with the times. Pain in the ar$e though that will be....
    I completely agree with @ducc's proposal
    I vote for the 250x250 resolution, and leaving the 180x180 for poor sources.

    The upcoming World Cup will provide plenty of HQ sources to start with

    There could be a disclaimer on the website that mentions the skins that won't work properly with the megapack, as in the ones that don't have a set size for the faces.
    I like the proposal of moving to 250x250 cuts, and leaving the 180x180 for poor sources.
    + what do we do then 180 + 180 or 250 + 250?
    + what do we do then 180 + 180 or 250 + 250?

    It looks like the below is the favoured option for now, but I want to hear more feedback before making it official
    • Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    • Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    • Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.
    In the meantime, wherever possible, I'd like all cutters to start cutting in 250x250 where the sources allow. Should we not go down that road, it'll be easy enough to resize them down to 180x180...
    thank you mons
    It looks like the below is the favoured option for now, but I want to hear more feedback before making it official
    • Have 2 standard sizes: 180x180 and 250x250.
    • Leave the existing images be – no resizing.
    • Everyone should strive to make all the new cuts in the larger size, but if good source images simply are not available, 180x180 will do as well.
    In the meantime, wherever possible, I'd like all cutters to start cutting in 250x250 where the sources allow. Should we not go down that road, it'll be easy enough to resize them down to 180x180...


    I'm agree
    https://i.imgur.com/3kNqZ2l.jpg
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