Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Votes a week away, odd we don't have a thread on it. But I guess we don't have as many Scottish members as we used to.

Looking like its going to be a close run thing, despite the fact that Salmond is very obviously a charlton who doesn't really have a clue about what he can and can't do after independence.

Makes you wonder how convincingly a yes campaign would have won with a halfway competent leader who had some sense of a contingency plan rather than a pie in the sky idealist 'everything will be alright when we get rid of those English bastards (except from their TV, currency, services etc... basically everything but the name UK)' at the helm of the whole thing.
Jason
18 years ago
2 weeks ago
4,641
They won't go independent, no chance. It'll ruin Scotland, i mean, its not that great now.
Flash.
18 years ago
1 year ago
677
As much as I'd love to see an independent Scotland and I do think it would be an improvement, it's probably too big a risk.

Both the Yes and No sides have went about the referendum terribly. It's ridiculous that it's less than a week away and there's so many unanswered questions.

This (Labour MP's coming to Glasgow yesterday), however, is one of the best things that has ever happened:

Carroll.
15 years ago
4 years ago
3,361
How does going independent benefit Scotland?
Crane
15 years ago
1 month ago
2,434
Premium
I don't think Scottish people would be able to cope with not being able to come down into England and say "I think you'll find that is legal tender pal!".
K3V0
16 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
That's an absolutely brilliant video!!
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
How does going independent benefit Scotland?


If you believe Salmond it benefits Scotland because they get all the benefits of being in the UK without taking any of their share of the obligations. When anyone points out how that is complete bollocks and no one will let him do that he talks about how Britain are 'bullying' Scotland and surprisingly some people are dim enough to lap it up.

In reality its hard to say, the argument that Scotland is better off run by Scots is a bit wishy washy because it pretty much already is run by the Scots (and they pretty much ran the whole of Britain under the last Labour government) and will probably inevitably lead to higher taxes, the loss of the pound, no ability to enter the EU etc... but there will be concessions during negotiations.
Flash.
18 years ago
1 year ago
677
Independence benefits Scotland as we get to have a say in how our country is run.

In the last election, only 1 out of the 51 seats in Scotland were conservative, yet we ended up with a conservative government. No matter how Scotland vote, it makes no difference, we have no say in what government we have.

Scotland is currently run by London, who don't have a clue about Scotland. It's a similar story for the north of England.
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Whilst true for the north of England the fact Scotland's had a devolved assembly for 15 years basically makes that an irrelevancy. True some powers are retained by Westminster but the process is ongoing and more powers are devolved year by year, but Scotland is currently run by Scotland for basically any thing that matters on a day to day basis and the share of the budget allocation to Scotland outstrips its GDP contribution to the union iirc.

If anything, Scotland is over-represented in the UK as Scottish MPs can vote on English domestic matters but not vice-versa.
edallen2
12 years ago
1 month ago
224
If anything, Scotland is over-represented in the UK as Scottish MPs can vote on English domestic matters but not vice-versa.


IF it is a note vote next week, the west lothian question will be answered. also scotland assembly will get tax raising powers which the barnett formula which funds scotland, wales and northern ireland will be scrapped or reduced for scotland therefore scotland will have to fend for itself in terms revenue to spend on student fees, free perscriptions etc.

There are a lot technical questions like currency, debt, taxes etc. which have not been answered, scotland will not get a currency union with the bank of england, they will end up buying the pound on so many pence on the pound like some countries do with the US Dollar but retain control of tax and inflation powers. Salmond only wants a currency union so that BOE and the exchequer will have to bail them out when he cocks it all up. The EU is having a freeze for the next 5 years on new members which scotland will be, also the freeze could be extended for another 5yrs.

I dont think scotland will be an independant country after next week's vote. It will be another 100yrs or so before it happens again, salmond wants the independance to through by may 2016 has there are elections and it will guarantee him being prime minister of scotland. No vote will mean there is no point of having SNP.
Franck
18 years ago
6 days ago
4,255
Thinking the independence movement would just crawl up and die after a no vote is the most naïve thing I've heard.
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
It obviously won't, but its hard to see where the movement goes after a no-vote. It'd probably be the death knell for Salmond's career, and a huge blow for the SNP. 100 years is possibly pushing it, but its difficult to see independence coming this close again for a long time if its rejected.
Jason
18 years ago
2 weeks ago
4,641
Just popping this in here

George14brfc
13 years ago
4 years ago
3,912
Franck
18 years ago
6 days ago
4,255
It obviously won't, but its hard to see where the movement goes after a no-vote. It'd probably be the death knell for Salmond's career, and a huge blow for the SNP. 100 years is possibly pushing it, but its difficult to see independence coming this close again for a long time if its rejected.

After all the belittling talk from the no campaign I think a close result will only fire up the independence movement further. Quebec had a second independence referendum in 1995 only 15 years after the first one was defeated, I'd expect that a close no vote would lead to a second referendum in Scotland within a similar time frame. The independence question will not go away as long as the SNP remain a force in Scottish politics.
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
After all the belittling talk from the no campaign I think a close result will only fire up the independence movement further. Quebec had a second independence referendum in 1995 only 15 years after the first one was defeated, I'd expect that a close no vote would lead to a second referendum in Scotland within a similar time frame. The independence question will not go away as long as the SNP remain a force in Scottish politics.


I don't think anyones actually been belittling anyone, really, the NO votes 'bellittment' has basically been asking a lot of questions that need to be answered which Salmon has refused to do, whilst making out that his unwillingness or inability to answer is intimidatory tactics. There's definitely bad blood, theres always going to be in these sorts of scenarios and when one side on its extreme has people dim enough to be ardent nationalists its no surprise, but its mostly manufactured and I suspect will die out quickly when Salmond stops bleating about being bullied in lieu of actually creating workable policy.
Slashman X
18 years ago
1 year ago
6,000
I think most 'Yes' votes are purely because people don't think they'll ever get another chance so it's a 'now or never' type of thing in many people's minds
Telegram Sam
16 years ago
4 months ago
5,082
Premium
I don't think anyones actually been belittling anyone, really, the NO votes 'bellittment' has basically been asking a lot of questions that need to be answered which Salmon has refused to do, whilst making out that his unwillingness or inability to answer is intimidatory tactics. There's definitely bad blood, theres always going to be in these sorts of scenarios and when one side on its extreme has people dim enough to be ardent nationalists its no surprise, but its mostly manufactured and I suspect will die out quickly when Salmond stops bleating about being bullied in lieu of actually creating workable policy.

This is what has annoyed me the most in recent weeks - it's gotten to the point that if anyone dares speculate the negative ramifications of a 'Yes' vote, they're immediately 'bullying' and 'belittling' the Scots. It's total bullshit because there are a number of important questions that need to be asked that unfotunately for the 'Yes' campaign don't have particularly welcoming answers.
Slashman X
18 years ago
1 year ago
6,000
Kind of related point: Some of the stuff the UK/English media have been coming out with regarding Ireland has been fucking disgraceful
Telegram Sam
16 years ago
4 months ago
5,082
Premium
I just can't wait for it all to be over.
Jan.
18 years ago
2 days ago
305
Premium
I just can't wait for it all to be over.

What can't you wait for?

Heart was racing and my hands were shaking as I crossed the yes box. Going to be devastated if it's a no.
Telegram Sam
16 years ago
4 months ago
5,082
Premium
YouGov's "exit poll" has the No campaign at 54% and Yes at 46%, leading to the President of YouGov stating he is 99% sure the No campaign will win tonight.
Telegram Sam
16 years ago
4 months ago
5,082
Premium
Clackmannashire and Orkney vote No.
Tommo.
13 years ago
6 months ago
2,272
Looks like it's a no
Deano
18 years ago
19 hours ago
1,380
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
I think Yes would have won if more people put 'Yes' in their avatars,
Hibee
18 years ago
4 years ago
588
Should have used more 'Yes' stickers as well...

I was at the count last night and was pretty surprised by how big the gap was in some of our areas as well as the country as a whole. I think Dundee was about the only place where Yes won comfortably, they scraped Glasgow but only by 30k or so votes and that was cancelled out by the Borders where Yes won by a similar number of votes despite it only having 80k or so papers.
Shola
16 years ago
6 years ago
2,708
I feel sorry for non-Scottish people they seem very disappointed.
Ninja
15 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
I'm made up. We're guarentueed a Tory government without the scots. They do us all a big political favour. Gonna be interesting to see what happens now. Imagine there's going to be a backlash against plans for more Scottish powers and an increase in funding. May see the beginnings of a devolved English assembly all feeding in to Westminster Im a more federal system
Telegram Sam
16 years ago
4 months ago
5,082
Premium
I'm made up. We're guarentueed a Tory government without the scots. They do us all a big political favour. Gonna be interesting to see what happens now. Imagine there's going to be a backlash against plans for more Scottish powers and an increase in funding. May see the beginnings of a devolved English assembly all feeding in to Westminster Im a more federal system

This. Losing Scotland would have made the UK and more far-right leaning nation.

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