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Poe
Rooney needs to pull his finger out at international level.
Ninja
The rest of his game absolutely dicks on the other options England have.
VP.
Bit of a fucker when your a striker that.
Poe
He scores more goals than Welbeck does.
Telegram Sam
Enlighten me.
Ninja
It's not so much that he's a bad finisher, he's actually really good at times and especially when wearing an England shirt. It just seems to be some sort of mental thing where he hasn't scored in a while and he's really struggling in the box at the minute.
His still got time on his side, and when you compare his last season at 21 to that of some of the games better strikers at the minute when they were 21 he really doesn't look that out of place.
Llorente: 4 goals in 25 appearances for Athletic Bilbao in La Liga
Torres: 13 goals in 40 appearances for Atletico Madrid in La Liga
Villa: 20 goals in 48 for Gijon in Segunda Liga
Klose: 0 goals in 0 appearances for Kaiserslauten in the Bundesliga
Gomez: 8 goals in 38 appearances for Stuttgart in the Bundesliga
V. Persie: 10 goals in 41 appearances for Arsenal in the Premier League
Huntelaar: 19 goals in 39 appearances for Heerenveen in the Eredivisie
Welbeck: 12 goals in 39 appearances for Manchester United in the Premier League
Di Natale: 12 goals in 25 appearances for Viareggio in Serie C
Lewandowski: 21 goals in 34 appearances for Lech Poznan in the Ekstraklasa,
Ibrahimovic: 21 in 42 for Ajax in the Eredivisie
Benzema: 23 in 47 for Lyon in Ligue 1
Ninja
He's built in a different mode to Defoe and Sturridge, his touch is better, his vision is better, his awareness is better his movement is top rate, he works harder, is a better passer etc...
Those two are obviously better players right now, but they don't offer you too much more than goals, Welbeck does. I've chucked a few gifs in spoilers, but if you want more trawl through the 124 page thread on redcafe about him.
That game against Everton was easily his best in a United shirt, and it's no surprise it's the best we've been in attack for ages. He's got all the potential to be one of the best in the League.
Poe
Jamieandhisego
Ooh, maybe you could do one of those lists about De Gea and pop it in the United thread? I bet he's already excelling past most goalkeepers his age.
Poe
Ninja
Also comfortably the hardest league, and the only other player in it, Van Persie, has less goals in more games. Arsenal scored 87 goals that season as well, the most in the league, so that's hardly the most convincing argument.
Anyway, I don't think there's too much disagreement here, I'm just making the point that the goal return he got at 21 when playing most of the season as a striker was pretty handy in comparison to others and certainly a decent base on which to improve.
Poe
Sturridge at the minute is the better option though.
Telegram Sam
Jamieandhisego
Ninja
I don't necessarily disagree, I started this discussion by qualifying his better all round player with a need to add goals.
I'd still probably pick him for England though, because his goal return has actually been very good for the national team and he's been clinical too. I think the stat is he's scored five times from his 5 shots.
I think he came 2nd in England's player of the year thing yesterday as well.
VP.
Van Persie had only just signed for Arsenal from a much easier league, where as Welbeck was in familiar surroundings with a team full of players he already knew, hardly a fair comparison really.
Plus its the stats right now that matter, and as a striker he's are very very poor.
Poe
VP.
Well i had to look this seasons stats up and if correct he only has 1 goal in 19 games this season?
Ninja
Playing almost completely off the wing.
Poe
Same with Papiss Cisse - has something like 4 in 7 when playing central striker but his normal stats look something like 8 in 26.
hammer9
Ninja
hammer9
is it too late for other stikers, after 2 players injured?
Poe
5 strikers that aren't Rooney, Defoe, Welbeck and Sturridge?
Go...
Ninja
Llalana (technically Llanana isn't a striker, I know, but you'd have to think he'd take a strikers place in the team), Le Fondre, Lambert, Hooper and at a stretch for the 5th one Murray or Austin, who are at least both scoring goals unlike Carroll who's scored twice and been injured tonnes.
All would be in my England team before Carroll at the minute. Hell, you could even have Walcott.
VP.
Ninja
Of course I didn't, my point was that Carroll should be miles down the list not that there is exactly 5 players who should be getting game time for England.
I thought that was obvious.
Poe
Lallana is a midfielder so no.
I'd give you Lambert, Hooper and maybe Le Fondre but I'm unsure if what he offers is better than what Carroll would.
Ninja
You didn't include him in your list.
I don't really think any of them should really be there, but my point wasn't so much that they should be getting call ups just that Carroll certainly shouldn't be.
I'd much rather Austin who's scoring goals, is 23 and is moving in the right direction than Carroll who is stagnating even those his goals have come at a lower level too.
Poe
Given the right service he can be devastating - his aerial prowess is something completely different to what any other striker bar maybe Crouch can offer.