Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092
Carragher is a moron.

"Why did he buy Veron? Fucking hell.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Carragher says a Liverpool player is better. = Biased. Neville says a Man Utd player is better = outstanding punditry.

Neville's rubbish anyway. Came across as totally smug and smarky.


You're such a bore.

The debate itself has been done to death, but its a perfectly legitimate debate to have and although some United fans would have you believe that Scholes wins it by a margin (as I'm sure, Chelsea and Liverpool fans would in regards to their respective players) its hardly clear cut.

My problem with Carragher's punditry is he relies on tired and lazy cliches to propogate pre-conceived notions. Neville's proven himself to be far more willing to be guided by the facts, which is why you'll see as many United fans hating him because they think he should be beating the ex-United player drum as you will people who hate him because he's Neville.
Shola
16 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Carragher was asked a question, he gave an answer and explained it.

Neville was the one who started talking about his former club and supplied a lot of anecdotes and didn't offer a fact. At least Carragher didn't start talking about Liverpool's philosophy being of possession football and counter attacking. Neville also makes the point of playing with all three, ignoring that Carragher has as well.
Jamieandhisego
17 years ago
1 year ago
841
Scholes used to play behind the striker, or even up front, when we signed Veron. It's like Carragher saying, 'If Rooney is so good, why did you buy Hargreaves?'
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Carragher was asked a question, he gave an answer and explained it.

Neville was the one who started talking about his former club and supplied a lot of anecdotes and didn't offer a fact. At least Carragher didn't start talking about Liverpool's philosophy being of possession football and counter attacking. Neville also makes the point of playing with all three, ignoring that Carragher has as well.


Well there's your problem. Neville's points were perfectly valid, Paul Scholes won football matches because he was excellent at keeping possession and controlling matches and that theres more to football that simply scoring goals (despite the fact that Gerrard and Scholes numbers for United and Liverpool are very similar even with Scholes playing deeper for probably his last 10 years here), if you disagree with that point you might as well give up watching football. The argument that it was poor punditry to say that in training with Scholes on your team you won is a bit of a nonsense, it illustrates the point well.

Carra's response was the nonsensical arguments that Sven shifted Scholes to the left so that shows he's rubbish, which Neville countered easily and the even worse argument about Veron which was laughed at.

You've completely made up the 'point of playing with all three' Neville just said that he's played with a lot of good players and Scholes was the best, if you think about it he's also including the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Cantona, Giggs, Keane, Beckham and every other player he's played with at England or Manchester United. He didn't 'forget' that Carragher had too, because he wasn't using it as a stick to beat Carragher with. You, however, have conveniently ignored that Carragher agrees with him and says 'Scholes was the best player I've played with by a mile', apparently that doesn't undermine his point but there you go.

You're also ignoring subtlety of what Neville actually said. He didn't like to compare the three players because although they were all world class they were all good at different aspects of football in different ways. So your blanket statement to start with that thinking that Carragher's baseless ramblings were worse punditry than Neville's far more measured response was somehow the result of bias on my part because Neville said that Scholes was the better player and I agreed with that is wrong, because Neville never made that claim.
Crane
14 years ago
2 days ago
2,432
Premium
Lets just all hope Neville stays in the studio and doesn't do commentary on games.
Croy
13 years ago
2 weeks ago
207
Haha, Shelvey couldn't set his mind for what team he was playing. He's either a very poor passer or he genuinely had trouble deciding who were his teamates
Obtuse
15 years ago
3 years ago
1,338
Well there's your problem. Neville's points were perfectly valid, Paul Scholes won football matches because he was excellent at keeping possession and controlling matches and that theres more to football that simply scoring goals (despite the fact that Gerrard and Scholes numbers for United and Liverpool are very similar even with Scholes playing deeper for probably his last 10 years here), if you disagree with that point you might as well give up watching football. The argument that it was poor punditry to say that in training with Scholes on your team you won is a bit of a nonsense, it illustrates the point well.

Carra's response was the nonsensical arguments that Sven shifted Scholes to the left so that shows he's rubbish, which Neville countered easily and the even worse argument about Veron which was laughed at.

You've completely made up the 'point of playing with all three' Neville just said that he's played with a lot of good players and Scholes was the best, if you think about it he's also including the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo, Cantona, Giggs, Keane, Beckham and every other player he's played with at England or Manchester United. He didn't 'forget' that Carragher had too, because he wasn't using it as a stick to beat Carragher with. You, however, have conveniently ignored that Carragher agrees with him and says 'Scholes was the best player I've played with by a mile', apparently that doesn't undermine his point but there you go.

You're also ignoring subtlety of what Neville actually said. He didn't like to compare the three players because although they were all world class they were all good at different aspects of football in different ways. So your blanket statement to start with that thinking that Carragher's baseless ramblings were worse punditry than Neville's far more measured response was somehow the result of bias on my part because Neville said that Scholes was the better player and I agreed with that is wrong, because Neville never made that claim.


Absolutely spot on. Couldn't agree any more with this. If the lazy staff would add a reputation system (positive only) then I would be giving you a rep about now
VP.
13 years ago
1 month ago
25,271
Absolutely spot on. Couldn't agree any more with this. If the lazy staff would add a reputation system (positive only) then I would be giving you a rep about now


Why don't you kiss his arse instead?

Anyway, can't be bothered to read though all this but for me Gerrard is the better of the 3. He's one of the best players i've seen in my lifetime easily.
Crane
14 years ago
2 days ago
2,432
Premium
Says a lot about some of the people on this site when the discussion after the game is about the pundits.
Obtuse
15 years ago
3 years ago
1,338
Why don't you kiss his arse instead?

Anyway, can't be bothered to read though all this but for me Gerrard is the better of the 3. He's one of the best players i've seen in my lifetime easily.


It wasn't about kissing his arse but rather a longstanding thing of me trying to get a reputation system put in place. If you had been around you would have seen this. You should know I don't kiss arse by now.

Gerrard is not technical sound and he admits this. He is better than Lampard and is immense but he is not Paul Scholes as even Xavi rates him.
The Platypus
13 years ago
1 year ago
1,784
Lampard > Gerrard any day of the week. Fuck y'all.
Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092
EDIT: Yeah, wrong thread.
Carroll.
15 years ago
3 years ago
3,361
Garry Neville talks absolute bollocks giving all the credit to controlling the game to one player. Yeah, him, Xavi, Pirlo etc are good and do their job immensely but they do not control the game single handily.
Shola
16 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
He actually says Scholes is unique in his ability to control a game.
Carroll.
15 years ago
3 years ago
3,361
Don't get me wrong, Paul Scholes is a good player. Not going to get into the Lampard Gerrard Scholes debate, cause I'll obviously pick the Liverpool player. But that was a stupid statement to make.
Eric Portapotty
15 years ago
1 day ago
3,323
Jack. Fucking. Wilshere.
Jamieandhisego
17 years ago
1 year ago
841


Come back in 15 years and then we'll see.
Eric Portapotty
15 years ago
1 day ago
3,323
Come back in 15 years and then we'll see.

Because I was clearly serious about that post.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Says a lot about some of the people on this site when the discussion after the game is about the pundits.


Punditry informs the discussion, its hardly the worst thing in the world to talk about who is good at it and not.

We all digest a great quantity of literature on the topic of football by our very presence on the site being critical of some of the opinions is part of the parcel. Besides, my reply only got lengthy because I was bored at work.

He actually says Scholes is unique in his ability to control a game.


He's clearly talking in the context of those 3, which is spot on.
Poe
17 years ago
22 minutes ago
3,675
David Batty, end of discussion.
K3V0
16 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
Looking forward to the game on Sunday!!
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
I can't actually believe how momentously stupid this 'Right Behind Gay footballers' campaign is.

How could anyone possibly think thats an appropriate name for what they're trying to achieve?
Obtuse
15 years ago
3 years ago
1,338
I just think the whole campaign is a bit daft. They are doing it without any proof and forcing it on people while saying in press releases that there has to be a gay footballer. What is there isn't (outside of Rogers)? It is not impossible after all or maybe they just don't want their dirty laundry aired in public.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Why should anyone come out anyway? What business is it of theirs? Just seems like a few half baked ideas had a bit of money thrown at them.
Shola
16 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
If Liverpool lose today and Newcastle win, Newcastle can go top of the League
Telegram Sam
15 years ago
3 days ago
5,082
Premium
If Liverpool lose today and Newcastle win, Newcastle can go top of the League

Bloody hell, you're right.
Number 1
16 years ago
11 months ago
3,650
That would be impressive.

Even if Liverpool win, victory for us over Hull takes us second or third for the night.
Slashman X
17 years ago
5 months ago
6,000
Premium
This whole BT Sport "show us on the pitch what you'd do" is odd

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