Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Rooney is better than Kagawa, simple as that.

I wish he wasn't, because I like Kagawa and Rooney is a cunt but there's just no way he should be playing over Rooney at this point in time.
Dutton
17 years ago
2 months ago
1,101
This ^

He could easily play in a similar role to what Welbeck has started in this season. Positioned on the left but able to roam inside (which is what he generally did last season anyway).
SpinSwimScream
14 years ago
6 hours ago
1,598
I feel the same way about Hernandez, i absolutely love the guy, but who in their right mind would play him above a fit and firing Van Persie or Rooney. Really can see him leaving next season maybe which would be gutting cause he is quality
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
K3V0
16 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Local Bilbao newspaper El Correo, who have demonstrated the best connected reporting in Spain on this throughout, insist that representatives traveled from Laffer's Bilbao offices to Madrid and were representing both Ander Herrera and Manchester United in an attempt to get the deal done. They had not just turned up Only Fools And Horses style to try and become rich, they probably already are.
If you were a football club, or a footballer, wanting to employ experts on Spanish football law in Bilbao, then Laffer would be who you'd choose. To think that partners from the firm turned up in Madrid without having any encouragement to do so is frankly laughable.
We contacted Laffer on Tuesday morning to get their side, not expecting much given they're a legal firm and will be careful about how they approach such situations. Not for them to fire around accusations about the behaviour of others. Clearly frustrated by the reporting of the situation in Spain and England right now, the firm were unable to comment other than to say they were having a meeting and after that may be able to speak on the matter, perhaps not best to hold breath.
It's correct to say that Manchester United didn't send anyone to Spain, but that doesn't in turn make the partners from Laffer impostors. El Correo insist that Laffer are a prestigious firm highly respected in Bilbao and there's little reason to doubt that, the newspaper just think the whole move for Ander Herrera was a mess from start to finish.
They claim that Manchester United offered €30m on Thursday and wanted to pay this over four installments, a situation which was always going to be unacceptable to Athletic Bilbao. For them a Basque player has his own value, given their recruitment policy it's far harder for them as purchasers in the transfer market and this is reflected when they sell a player they'd rather stayed.
There's also the famous Basque stubbornness. When Fernando Llorente was intent on leaving the club because he wanted a new challenge, and more money, he quickly became person non grata with Los Leones. There was no turning back and little room for reconciliation, the situation helped neither the player or club but demonstrated that Athletic Bilbao have strength in such matters even if those principles may seem unreasonable at times. What Manchester United valued Herrera at, and it's clear it was less than his clause, doesn't really matter. Whether he's actually worth €36m or €10m less is irrelevant to the Basque club, that was the price and if Manchester United wanted the player then that's what they had to pay.
Understandably there's anger in Spain at the situation and Manchester United's reputation has been damaged. El Correo claim that some people connected to the deal think it was a case of either Marouane Fellaini or Ander Herrera when it came down to the wire, and that the big Belgian won out. They say the club's credibility in the transfer market has been damaged.
Reports that Manchester United weren't sure what they had to pay are incorrect. There are four copies of a player's contract, one of which is held at the Spanish league and they would have informed Manchester United what the amount was. Tax issues could have been overcome, with the help of Laffer, but the realisation that a training fee would have to be paid to previous clubs was another late hurdle and an added cost of around €1.8m.
With the hours running out, Manchester United walked away and concentrated on securing Fellaini with a late move for Real Madrid's Fabio Coentrao falling through despite the best efforts of Jorge Mendes.
There have been errors in the Herrera deal and the player feels a promise to him was broken, there is some anger from Athletic Bilbao fans towards the midfielder but it's nowhere near the Llorente level and the irritation will no doubt move toward Manchester United instead. Laffer were not impostors, they may have not been able to give Manchester United and Ander Herrera the answers they wanted but they have a history in this field, a successful one.
A naivety in thinking Athletic Bilbao would in the end reduce the price to please Manchester United and accept staggered payments could be to blame or it could simply be that the club were never going to pay what the Spanish club wanted whether the deal came to a head in June or three hours before the close of the transfer window.
Nobody wins. Least of all Laffer Abogados who are, almost certainly unfairly, being painted as scam artists throughout the European media


There you go, car crash stuff.
Poe
17 years ago
4 days ago
3,675
As I said, it's going to be awesome watching Man Utd fall into the place of a normal football club after being so outstanding for the past 10-15 years.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
I could cope with being a normal club, a normal club couuld have done everything better for the past 4 months. Its the fuccking shambles we've been for the past months I have a problem with.

I imagine we're probably going to get sued by Laffer as well, if that article is true, pissing off a law firm isn't the smartest thing to do.
tmatthew
17 years ago
5 months ago
771
What is a "normal club"?
Poe
17 years ago
4 days ago
3,675
I could cope with being a normal club, a normal club couuld have done everything better for the past 4 months. Its the fuccking shambles we've been for the past months I have a problem with.

I imagine we're probably going to get sued by Laffer as well, if that article is true, pissing off a law firm isn't the smartest thing to do.


They don't though, normal clubs do fucking stupid stuff like that all the time.

What is a "normal club"?


Basically any other club other than Man Utd, they have been so impeccably ran for ages. It's going to be strange watching them make the amateur mistakes all other clubs make.
Telegram Sam
15 years ago
1 day ago
5,082
Premium
United are still incredibly well run but every mistake is going to be highlight now that Ferguson has gone.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
They don't though, normal clubs do fucking stupid stuff like that all the time.


Badly run clubs, maybe. None of our domestic or European rivals, with the exception of Arsenal, who we comfortably out Arsenaled yesterday have been as bad as us this summer.

Doing 'fucking stupid shit' doesn't make you normal, it makes you a laughing stock.
Poe
17 years ago
4 days ago
3,675
Badly run clubs, maybe. None of our domestic or European rivals, with the exception of Arsenal, who we comfortably out Arsenaled yesterday have been as bad as us this summer.

Doing 'fucking stupid shit' doesn't make you normal, it makes you a laughing stock.


Every clubs is a laughing stock at some point though (trust me being a Newcastle fan I know), all the top clubs have done it in the past 10 years. In England at least.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Every clubs is a laughing stock at some point though (trust me being a Newcastle fan I know), all the top clubs have done it in the past 10 years. In England at least.


But thats not the 'normal' state of affairs, thats an abberation.

Plenty of clubs can do business better than we have done this summer. For example, Chelsea, City, Spurs... actually I'll save time, everyone has done business better than us this summer with the possible (but no means definite) exception of you. Is every single one of those clubs not 'normal'?
Poe
17 years ago
4 days ago
3,675
Just because they've done good business this summer doesn't mean they'll do something monumentally stupid at other times.

Such as Arsenal bidding 10m for Cabaye, thinking ah fuck it, actually we'll spend 42m on Ozil instead. Or bidding £40,000,001 for Suarez. City have been good, but how often is that the case? Same with Chelsea. Normally very spend thrift and disposable with their managers and no long term stability. I'm not just talking about transfers here btw.

We've definitely been worse than you in the transfer window this summer, there's no question about that. It's been appalling, but I do get what you're saying, when Man Utd are comparing how badly they're being ran to Newcastle there's definitely something amiss.
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Another angle on the Herrara fiasco. Sounds a lot better from this point of view.

http://enentredicho.wordpress.com/2013/09/03/que-ha-pasado-con-ander-herrera/

He wanted us, we wanted him and we were there to pay his clause.

1. We sent the law firm to pay his clause.
2. Athletic said "nope, we will not receive your money."
3. United had instructed the reps to pull the plug if issues occurred.
4. During the Martinez deal, Athletic said the same to Bayern, who then turn to governmental entities to put pressure on Athletic.
5. With so little time left of the window, United couldn't force the issue and pulled the plug to focus on Fellaini.
tmatthew
17 years ago
5 months ago
771
I hope that's the case, then it's possible Herrera is pissed off at Bilbao rather than us, and hopefully we can sort something in January.

But it doesn't explain why we'd deny those lawyers were working for us.
Dutton
17 years ago
2 months ago
1,101
Bilbao aren't in Europe are they? So we could get him in January I suppose.
Telegram Sam
15 years ago
1 day ago
5,082
Premium
Wait, so what happened? Did Bilbao argue over the release clause?
tmatthew
17 years ago
5 months ago
771
If this is true it sounds like they just refused to accept the offer as a delaying tactic, and since we had no time to argue we just gave up.
tmatthew
17 years ago
5 months ago
771
Aye, just read that they refused to accept the money. When this happened with Bayern and Martinez they had time to get the Bilbao Financial Council to pressure them into accepting the offer, we didn't.

Which doesn't resolve us of blame, should have sorted this fucking weeks ago.
VP.
13 years ago
1 month ago
25,271
Are you lot turning into us?

Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/426695/Marouane-Fellaini-forfeited-4m-in-cut-price-move-to-Manchester-United

Basically says we only actually paid £23.5m and the extra £4m came from Fellaini forfeiting his bonuses making it 'worth' £27m to Everton.

Much less stupid if true.
SpinSwimScream
14 years ago
6 hours ago
1,598
love that we got Fellaini aye, still a dreadful window overall though. Wasnt £23 roughly his release clause aswell? decent price then if true
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
Yeah, and I imagine we got much more favourable payment schedules than what was probably a £23m lump sum as his release clause.

Still should have been sorted about 2 months before it was though.
Dutton
17 years ago
2 months ago
1,101
Ah that's much better, I knew about that but didn't know that was included in the price Everton had revealed.

Lad.
Slashman X
17 years ago
5 months ago
6,000
Premium
Everton deny reports that midfielder Marouane Fellaini paid £4m of the transfer fee to ensure his move to Manchester United went ahead.

Reports suggest that the 25-year-old Belgium international agreed to forgo a sizeable loyalty payment to force through his dream move.

But Everton's director of communications Alan Myers has tweeted: "For those asking: No Felli did not pay £4m of the transfer fee! The buying club will pay £27.5m."
Ninja
14 years ago
7 years ago
5,341
No report ever said that Fellaini paid anything. So it seems an odd denial to make.
Poe
17 years ago
4 days ago
3,675
Surely if he handed a transfer request in he'd already be waiving loyalty bonus?
Slashman X
17 years ago
5 months ago
6,000
Premium
Yeah it was more this that was being pointed out: "The buying club will pay £27.5m."

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