Old Trafford Lounge

Gerrard was one of our best players in the Euros and his lack of pace isn't as exposed in the middle of the park as much as it would be in the heart of the defence. Also, as Gary Neville pointed out, Ferdinand's not been a first-team regular for years and there's little to be gained from bringing him back when he isn't going to first choice. Gerrard's also not had the chronic injury problems that Rio's had over the past few seasons.

John Terry is slower than Ferdinand and has the turning circle of a coach so lack of pace is irrelevant.

I agree with what Neville said, he hasn't played for England and will be too old by the next world cup, but so will Gerrard and Lamard and I just think Roy has handled it badly.

The last bit is just totally wrong. Gerrard has been injured far more than Rio, he played 52 games over 2010/11 and 2011/12, Rio played 67.

As for Gerrard, I really think he's going to be affected by his declining physical prowess in the next few years. He was never a great passer of the ball, even if he bizarrely compares himself to Paul Scholes, but he was a world class player because of his drive, his ability to drag a team by it's shoulders kicking and screaming to some kind of improvement and his impact at both ends of the pitch. I don't think he'll be able to get around the pitch as much as he gets older, and I don't really think he's got enough technically to compensate when he can't cut it physically any more.

Gerrard is a great passer of the ball, or at least as good as any other English midfielder currently in my humble opinion. Although I think he's mainly in the team because he's a leader on the pitch and a good experienced head to have in the squad. Plus he's still capable of doing special things every now and again, and he adds goals and good set piece delivery to the team.

Gerrard is a great passer of the ball, or at least as good as any other English midfielder currently in my humble opinion. Although I think he's mainly in the team because he's a leader on the pitch and a good experienced head to have in the squad. Plus he's still capable of doing special things every now and again, and he adds goals and good set piece delivery to the team.

I agree.

Rio has nothing to offer England long term, absolutely no point him being in the team.

I would, however, argue the same for Steven Gerrard who will be 34 by the next World Cup and whose form is dipping alarmingly quickly and Lampard who will be 35 or 36.

But if Hodgson is going to include both of them, then he has no argument not to include Ferdinand.

I agree.

Rio has nothing to offer England long term, absolutely no point him being in the team.

I would, however, argue the same for Steven Gerrard who will be 34 by the next World Cup and whose form is dipping alarmingly quickly and Lampard who will be 35 or 36.

But if Hodgson is going to include both of them, then he has no argument not to include Ferdinand.

Summed up well.

Rio definitely shouldn't go up if asked as the FA/Hodgson treat him like crap, from the drug ban to being left out for 'footballing reasons' which was utter bullshit.

Maybe he doesn't have anything to offer long term, but he has been playing far better than the other defenders that were called up, if Hodgson was honest it wouldn't be such a big issue.

That bit is true and I think he deserves to be in the squad on that merit. You can't seriously think Gerrard is as good a passer as Scholes, that's insane. He's got great technical ability so he is capable of making a great pass but he gives the ball away far too often to be considered a great passer IMO.

Both Carrick and Wilshere are easily better passers of the ball than Gerrard.

You didn't say active internationals, but fair enough. I still don't agree though.

Manchester United's Ryan Tunnicliffe on drink-drive charge

Manchester United midfielder Ryan Tunnicliffe has been charged with drink-driving after a car collided with a van in Greater Manchester.

Mr Tunnicliffe, 19, of Clemshaw Close, Heywood, near Rochdale, was arrested after the crash on Saturday afternoon.

Police said a Range Rover collided with a van in Green Lane, Heywood. The van then collided with the wall of a house.

Mr Tunnicliffe was charged with driving with excess alcohol, Greater Manchester Police said.

He is due to appear at Bury Magistrates Court on 25 October.

Officers said the front seat passenger of the Range Rover suffered a minor whiplash injury in the collision and both vehicles were badly damaged.

The midfielder made his Manchester United debut against Newcastle United in the Capital One Cup last month. He was on loan to Peterborough United last season.

I think the City players are wearing the KIO shirts next weekend? Chelsea too? Not sure.

I don't really see what reason he had for wading in about Jason Roberts yesterday anyway. I assume he was asked if Rio would be following suit but he made a bit of a personal attack on Roberts when it wasn't really warranted. It seems like he could be creating a problem with a player he wants rid of just to make it easier to move him on. There were already rumours that Rio and Anton would not wear the t-shirt beforehand and now Fergie's apoplectic that he's been 'embarrassed' by his player. I see SAF's initial point but he can't tell Ferdinand how to feel about racism and Kick It Out in view of what's happened and should really support him.

One theory is that Ashley Cole is on his way here and Fergie will have to get rid of Rio in order for that to happen. Not sure what I make of that though.

Apparently, Lescott didn't wear a KIO t-shirt either.