bluemoon.
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By Telegram Sam | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 00:12 AM
It's hilarious that after all the times Gruber has slagged off Adam Johnson on here that he's gone and scored the winner against City. Beautiful.

Doesn't change my opinion on him. He's not a very good player. He did nothing all game then scored a flukey goal - it was classic Johnson.
Carroll.
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By jumberto | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 09:39 AM
You guys are funny, so blinkered.

Yesterday John Carver and another Newcastle coach spent about 10 minutes literally screaming in the linesman's face over a decision he'd made, Mancini said Lee Probert had too much christmas dinner and Harry Redknapp said the linesman in QPR's game needs to go to an optician and that Chris Foy was poor and it was scandalous decisions. Pulis and Roberto Martinez make comments on a weekly basis.

But no, it's only big bad Fergie who gets away with it (with his record number of touchline bans).


Bit like a certain Mr Suarez getting highlighted all the time, while others slip under the radar then, eh?

Nah but I only saw the United game as TV was playing up so couldn't even see the other interviews, and I missed the Newcastle coaches, but I'm pretty sure they don't do it every week.
Sam
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Shearer's punditry last night was incredibly awful.

On the Evans og these are the rules for interfering with play:

Interfering with play - Playing or touching the ball
Interfering with an opponent - Preventing the opponent from playing the ball by obstructing the player's sight or intentionally distracting the opponent
Gaining an advantage by being in an offside position - Playing the ball after the ball has rebounded off the goal, the goalkeeper, or any opponent


So Cisse is interfering with play and it should have been called. Shearer was wrong, but then again when would he be pro United?

And why were they furious at Fergie? Christ sake managers moan at refs all the time and usually for ages, it's funny how often people are quick to criticise Fergie. Oh and also Mancini said the ref must have been eating too much over Christmas, hence his bad performance. Imagine if Fergie said that, remember when he called Alan Wiley unfit and got banned?
Shola
16 years ago
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Yeah, the goal should have stood, Cisse under the current law didn't interfere. Shearer's analysis was 100% correct.

Obviously it's easier to just to pretend that the pundits are being biased against you and that the offside law is different to what it is.
Sam
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"Preventing the opponent from playing the ball by obstructing the player's sight or intentionally distracting the opponent" Cisse is interfering with play and was in an offside position.

Offside Rule Detailed

Oh well, who cares, we won and Shearer was wrong. His punditry is usually shit.

http://www.therussianlinesman.com/is-he-absurd-is-he-just-plain-yes-its-super-alan-shearer
Slashman X
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No complaint lodged about Fergie by the ref. Ridiculous
tmatthew
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Have City fans started with the conspiracy theories yet this season?
Deano
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Looking forward to beating Chelsea this weekend.
Carroll.
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How is he interfering with play? It's not making Evans out of position at all, he'd still be there to clear the ball whether Cisse is there or not?
tmatthew
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You honestly don't think Evans was put under any amount of pressure knowing Cisse was there?
Sam
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By Carroll. | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 13:05 PM
How is he interfering with play? It's not making Evans out of position at all, he'd still be there to clear the ball whether Cisse is there or not?


Evans wouldn't kick ball in to his own net if Cisse wasn't there.
Shola
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Cisse isn't interfering under the current offside law. Shearer was 100% correct. The point of the current law is to give attackers the advantage.

And that article was embarrising. Shearer says Spain are good team and is shocked people find them boring. DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. I think Shearer probably meant that Balotelli needs to become a world class player rather than just acting like one. It's looking unlikely at the moment, that he will live upto his potential.
Number 1
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It's a strange one.

The only unquestionable fact is that Cisse is offside, which seems to have been his party piece this season. I suppose once upon a time that would be the be all and end all, but it doesn't hit him and if anything, Evans is tugging on his arm as well as getting the final touch. It'd odd as he is both active in that he is being marked by Evans and not active because he doesn't touch the ball.

I have seen an extended tape of the build up to the 3rd Man U goal, where RVP smacks Coloccini in the throat moments before the ball reaches the penalty area. RVP doing such a thing is not that surprising given he got away with a similar elbow on Yohan Cabaye during the reverse fixture.
Eric Portapotty
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A better defender won't have scored an own goal, so there.
tmatthew
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"If an attacker interferes with an opponent by making a movement which distracts an opponent, then they are offside."

I can't actually believe this is even a debate.
Shola
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Standing in an offside posistion isn't deemed to be interfering. I think distractions are things like when Bolton used to put people on the goaline to distract the GK when taking free kicks. Not having your shirt pulled.

Besided Jonny Evans and Hernandez both came back from an offiside posision to score their goals, are you honestly saying they weren't distracting the defenders/gaining an advantage?

The point of the law is to give the advantage to attackers and to create more goals.
Dutton
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Hernandez isn't offside at all for his goal, I don't know where you've got that from. When Carrick plays the ball in he's level. The Evans goal, Evans is offside when Giggs attempts to flick it on but he isn't involved until the next phase when Hernandez picks the ball up and has a shot, where he is definitely onside.

For the OG, the ball is going right to Cisse who is in an offside position, Evans has to go and then try and clear the ball because Cisse will have most probably scored in that position and he's got that advantage due to being offside. If Cisse isn't there the ball is going wide, Evans might have gone for the ball if Cisse wasn't there anyway, but the fact that Cisse IS stood there gaining advantage in an offside position means that he most certainly has to go for the ball. I really don't see how anyone can see it any other way.
Sam
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By Shola | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 14:48 PM
Standing in an offside posistion isn't deemed to be interfering. I think distractions are things like when Bolton used to put people on the goaline to distract the GK when taking free kicks. Not having your shirt pulled.

Besided Jonny Evans and Hernandez both came back from an offiside posision to score their goals, are you honestly saying they weren't distracting the defenders/gaining an advantage?

The point of the law is to give the advantage to attackers and to create more goals.


When the passes were made they weren't offside though, when the ball was played towards Cisse he was offside and trying to gain advantage from his position - it's offside. FIFA's offside rule explanation, Evans is obviously distracted by Cisse. I don't have any idea why there's a debate on this, he's offside and it shouldn't have counted.

Oh well I'm sick of talking about it now!
Carroll.
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By tmatthew | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 13:08 PM
You honestly don't think Evans was put under any amount of pressure knowing Cisse was there?


Mental yes, seeing he knows Cisse is there, but physical no, as he's not pushing him in the back or anything.

He's really not getting an advantage at all. Evans would have to go clear the ball anyhow, as it was going towards the goal, so he either had the choice of clearing it (which he tried) or leaving it (it then would have most likely gone to Cisse or he would have left it, if he left it I'd still count him as offside), however Cisse only really plays a mental part in it, as he only puts pressure on Evans as he knows he is there and clearing is the only option to him. However he is not gaining an advantage.

I don't see how all this shit matters, you guys won, just get over it.
Carroll.
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I know there's some arm pulling btw, but I don't think it has a huge effect on Evans, he's still able to get to the ball etc.
tmatthew
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"If an attacker interferes with an opponent by making a movement which distracts an opponent, then they are offside."

His movement into an (offside) attacking position distracts Evans. I don't know why you thought it had to be a physical distraction.
Sam
18 years ago
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Cisse is trying to gain an advantage from his position, he's involved in an attacking move trying to score, it's bloody obvious he's trying to gain an advantage!
Carroll.
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By tmatthew | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 16:17 PM
"If an attacker interferes with an opponent by making a movement which distracts an opponent, then they are offside."

His movement into an (offside) attacking position distracts Evans. I don't know why you thought it had to be a physical distraction.


That rule sounds absolutely stupid, some player miles away could be distracting an opponent, does that mean they're interfering with play?
VP.
14 years ago
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All players are interfering with play in one way or another, the rule is complete shite and always will be. The only way to put an end to any arguments is to go back to the old way where if there is less than 2 players between you and the goal its offside and that's that.

Personally, i think the goal was rightly allowed by today's rules though.
Slashman X
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Didn't Evans push Cisse into an offside position in the first place?
VP.
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By Slashman X | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 18:45 PM
Didn't Evans push Cisse into an offside position in the first place?


Think he was holding Cisse so its his own fault anyway.
Telegram Sam
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By duckeggmoon | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 11:20 AM
Doesn't change my opinion on him. He's not a very good player. He did nothing all game then scored a flukey goal - it was classic Johnson.

I know, I didn't say any of your points about him were wrong - I just found it humerous that the player you've so often declared happy to see the back of has come back to haunt you.
om4ever
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By Deano | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 13:02 PM
Looking forward to beating Chelsea this weekend.


I hate Goodison Park so much.

Last time Chelsea won there it took the best 3 goal combination you'll ever see
Ninja
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By Shola | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 09:39 AM
I agree that he was interfering and imo it should have been disallowed. But these days you seem to actually need to touch the ball to be considered active. In fairness Hernandez and Evans definately gained an advantage by standing in an offside posistions just before they scored.

How was Valencia's tackle not shown? Shoulld have been a straigt red.

How can you say that and then spend the next part of this thread arguing about a law you've shown you don't understand?

By A Little Bit Of Merson Magic | Permalink | On 27 December 2012 - 18:19 PM
All players are interfering with play in one way or another, the rule is complete shite and always will be. The only way to put an end to any arguments is to go back to the old way where if there is less than 2 players between you and the goal its offside and that's that.

Personally, i think the goal was rightly allowed by today's rules though.

Nah.

The law as it is allows the game to flow well, there's many times in moves when players are in offside positions but inactive in one phase but onside and active in the next. Reverting to a law like that would lead to at least double the stoppages for offisde, and that's a waste of everyones time.

Here's a little diagram on interpretation of the law, which indicates that Dean was incorrect.

https://sortitoutsi.net/uploads/mirrored_images/JSEP8eOodG285NG1gs7VzKLpOutT2Z5MlisokPAI.png

The bit about Evans holding Ba or vica/versa is also a stupid debate, if Ba wasn't standing in a offside posistion Evans couldn't be holding him therefore his being in that posistion is clearly inferring with Evans.
Poe
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Whether it should have stood or not, Van Persie's goal also shouldn't have counted due to the foul in the build up - unsure why nothing was made of that.

Also, the fact that Fergie got no punishment at all for the way he went on is a disgrace.

That being said, Utd will win the league - the way they keep going right until the final whistle is something Man City and Chelsea don't seem to do.

We played extremely well and deserved a draw though.

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