seannn
9 years ago
7 years ago
417
While working today a thought crossed my mind, and since most of the people I work with are not big football lovers (yet) I figured I share my ramblings here. Also I couldn't find any articles online about it.

Is there a relationship between how successful a manager is and what position he played?

Having thought about the most successful managers I can think of are either defenders or more defensive midfielders. Alex Ferguson, Jock Stein, Fabio Capello, Louis Van Gaal, Bob Paisley, Walter Smith, even David Moyes (pre-Utd fall guy). They all had one thing in common, none of them ever score more than 50 career goals.

On the other side of this we have the likes of Ole Gunnar Solsskjaer, Ally McCoist, John Barnes. All prolific goal scorers. Obviously there are some exceptions (or I may be wrong completely).

Could it be that more defensive players see more of the match and therefor learn more about the game?
chokosc
14 years ago
5 days ago
1,041
It might be that players that play in a more defensive position are usually the captains. They are the core of the team and while growing up they get these captain-manager skills. You rarely see a striker being captain, unless he has a lot of influence on the game (Raul for example). Same reason why not many keepers are captains as they aren't able to dictate the game and push the team forward as a DM or sometimes even a CB.

Obviously not all successful managers were captains but as you said, most played in the more defensive positions.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
Fergie was a forward in his playing days.
Crane
14 years ago
3 weeks ago
2,432
Premium
And scored 171 goals in his career.

Clough was a prolific striker.

Might be better to do some actual research into it, rather than just listing a few strikers who became bad managers, and forgetting about the good ones.
seannn
9 years ago
7 years ago
417
Fergie was a forward in his playing days.


My mistake, I had always thought that he was a CB for some reason.
seannn
9 years ago
7 years ago
417
And scored 171 goals in his career.

Clough was a prolific striker.

Might be better to do some actual research into it, rather than just listing a few strikers who became bad managers, and forgetting about the good ones.

I never claimed to be an encyclopaedia, as the opening post said "(or I may be wrong completely)". I wasn't stating it to be correct anyway, nor writing an essay on it, just looking for others opinion on it.

The managers that I mentioned were just ones that stuck in my head.
bmg033
10 years ago
4 months ago
2,268
Don't think being a defender or defensive midfielder really matters much, especially as 2 of the greatest ever managers (Ferguson & Clough) were strikers. Joachim Löw was an attacking midfielder. He hasn't won too much as a club manager, but a world cup win is more impressive than any other trophy. Kenny Dalglish, Luis Aragonés & Ottmar Hitzfeld were good managers and were prolific strikers as well.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
It does make some sense that a defensive player would be more tactically aware than a striker which can lead to being a better coach.
Jonas
17 years ago
4 years ago
1,380
Premium
It would be interesting to see a study on the subject, though I don't believe there is a form of connection between the two.

For instance, former Norway coach Egil Olsen got his nickname "Drillo" because he loved to dribble and was quite ego on the ball in his playing days. As a coach however he would become known for playing a defensive minded football with long balls, coming up with sayings such as "best uten ball"(best without the ball) and where dribbling would be seen upon as a death sin nearly. On the other hand you had Nils Arne Eggen, a defender, conquering Europe with Rosenborg in the 90's playing attractive, attacking 4-3-3 football. Eggen would even have a right hand man to take control of the defensive aspect of his tactics - despite being a defender himself.

Managers such as Rinus Michels, Johan Cruijff, Valeri Lobanovskiy and Ottmar Hittzfeld were all forwards during their playing careers too.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
Haha, love your new avatar Jonas!
Jonas
17 years ago
4 years ago
1,380
Premium
I quite like it myself. Good 'ol Miles.
Splash The Cash On Matt Le Tiss
13 years ago
1 year ago
55
I did a little research:

Taking only managers who won the European Cup and its successor, the UEFA Champions League:

Goalkeepers have won 1 trophy as managers (Raymond Goethals in 1992-93)
Defenders have won 10, most recently Rafael Benítez in 2004-05.
Midfielders have won 30, most recently Carlo Ancelotti in 2013-14
Forwards have won 14, most recently Jupp Heynckes in 2012-13
Non-players have won 4 (Dettmar Cramer, who was a journalist, in 1974-75 and 1975-76 and Pep Villalonga in 1955-56 and 1956-57

Obviously there's some dodgy methodology: Cramer and Villalonga played football informally, but I can't find what position they preferred. Some players like Cruyff defy definition - forward or midfielder? But the overall impression is that midfielders make the best managers, with little to separate defenders and forwards.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
I've got a similar theory. Players who found the game easy when they played find it harder to manage because they either struggle to explain what they found easy to players who find it hard or because they never had to appreciate the nuances of the game when playing themselves.

It's impossible to quantify this subjectively, but the only player I can immediately think of to disprove the theory is Cruyff and perhaps Guardiola, but I'm not sure Guardiola really fits in playing an inherently cerebral role at the base of Cruyff's midfield.
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
I quite like it myself. Good 'ol Miles.

Am I the only person who doesn't like Miles Jacobson?
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
No, he's a bit of a cunt.
Franck
17 years ago
3 days ago
4,255
Am I the only person who doesn't like Miles Jacobson?

He has an incredibly punchable face.
Jonas
17 years ago
4 years ago
1,380
Premium
It's not because I'm specially fond of him that I've changed my avatar, guys.
ianbaker
12 years ago
7 years ago
762
It's not because I'm specially fond of him that I've changed my avatar, guys.

Hahaha, you fancy Miles! Gay boy! Gay boy! Gay boy!
Jonas
17 years ago
4 years ago
1,380
Premium
Hahaha, you fancy Miles! Gay boy! Gay boy! Gay boy!


Miles? Is that you?
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
Am I the only person who doesn't like Miles Jacobson?


I thought everyone hated Miles.

Keegan is a good example of an exceptional player who can seemingly motivate/communicate to inferior players. Dalglish another?
bluemoon.
17 years ago
2 months ago
2,411
Premium
No, he's a bit of a cunt.

He has an incredibly punchable face.

Good stuff. We're on the same page.

I thought everyone hated Miles.

See, that's what I thought - I remember him being widely derided for SI's pathetic efforts of engaging with the scene years back - but I've been doubting it recently. Good to know it's not just me though. He seems like a right smarmy cunt.

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