Miles Jacobson Interview - Rugby Manager, The FM World Cup and Fantasy Draft in FM25

A months ago ago saw the first ever FIFAe World Cup of Football Manager. 20 elite managers gathered from countries and competed for their share of a $100,000 prize pool. During the event YouTuber Arthur Ray got the chance to have an a chat with Miles Jacobson, the Studio Director of Sports Interactive.

Key Takeaways

• No Rugby Manager. Not popular enough and no passion for the game within the studio
• Plan for future FM World Cups will be open to anyone in the world to qualify
• Next qualifiers planned for March, the same month as FM25 release and it will be using Fantasy Draft

The most interesting part for me was Arthur pushing Miles on whether they'll ever make a Rugby Manager, after all they've already made games for Ice Hockey and Baseball. Unfortunately Miles seemed to rule it out, for the time being at least, explaining that it simply isn't popular enough worldwide, something he used to say about women's football. This seems a bit off considering Rugby Union apparently has over 800 million fans worldwide, which is hardly insignificant. The real reason seems to just be a lack of interest in Rugby by anyone at SI. Miles pointed out that the only reason East Side Hockey Manager happened was because of one very enthusiastic Finnish guy called Risto Remes and there's no equivalent person for Rugby right now in the studio. But maybe one day?

The rest of the chat obviously focused on the FM World Cup. Miles praised the atmosphere at the event as well as the production claiming that behind the scenes it was comparable to the backstage at professional football matches. The next step is now to work with FIFA to create pathways for broader participation. On this occasion participants where individually invited but hopefully in the future it will be open to every FM player in the world (yep you could be in the next one).

Unfortunately there wasn't much talk about this leading to new features in FM25, Miles seemed to say that what they were using was the default version of FM24 so nothing new was really needed. He also made clear that the intention is to get Fantasy Draft into FM25 by March, given that this was before FM25 was delayed it's unclear if that means it will be. Given that he says he wants it used as qualifiers in March that suggests we can expect both the release of FM25 and its first use as a qualifier for the next World Cup, which seems crazy given how little time their will be for the community to uncover all the bugs we will no doubt get from a complete rewrite of the game.
 

My bet would be that the qualifiers for the next FM World Cup will still be played on FM24, but we'll see, no doubt SI would want to be able to show off the new game just before release, if it's ready and playable. 

Transcript

Miles Jacobson: So, my name is Miles Jacobson, and I’m Studio Director at Sports Interactive and the director of Football Manager.

Arthur Ray: At Sports Interactive, do you just work with Football Manager, or do you have other games?

Miles Jacobson: We have had other games. So, we had Eastside Hockey Manager…

Arthur Ray: …which was like Football Manager but for hockey…

Miles Jacobson: We also had Out of the Park Baseball, which was like Football Manager but for baseball. That team then split away from us and went independent. They still make Out of the Park Baseball now.

We’ve also had some other football-based games over the years that haven’t fully come out, but we’ve mostly stuck with Football Manager. We’re quite good at it, I think, so that’s what we do—just all the different flavors of it.

Arthur Ray: Could you imagine developing another game, like Rugby Manager? Because in England, maybe the community wants it… You love rugby, no?

Miles Jacobson: Yeah, we’ve been asked about rugby a few times. To be honest, the market isn’t really big enough. You have France, England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales, but it’s not as big as football.

Arthur Ray: It’s big… no? Not that much?

Miles Jacobson: Not big enough. Also, I’m not passionate enough about rugby to do it properly. We always have to find someone who’s really passionate. For our hockey game, it was made by Risto Remes from Finland, who’s massively into ice hockey. He now works on the Football Manager match engine, so he’s not going back to Eastside anytime soon.

There are other sports we’ve looked at where the market might be big enough, but we’ve decided not to pursue them. Rugby is one of those cases where other people make rugby games, and I think they do quite a good job. We have to be really passionate about it, and for us, we are not.

Arthur Ray: Let’s talk about this event—the World Cup. In my opinion, this is the first big event for esports in Football Manager. How did it happen? Did FIFA talk to you, or did you reach out to FIFA? Were you looking for the same brand to make an event?

Miles Jacobson: When we first released Fantasy Draft mode internally, I kind of said, “Right, this is our esport.” But we couldn’t go out and say it’s our esport. It’s only an esport if the audience decides that it is. It didn’t really take off in the way we were expecting it to.

What I realized from that is, I’m in my 50s. I grew up playing games, but I didn’t grow up playing esports. We didn’t have esports back then.

Arthur Ray: Same for me. I play Football Manager alone in my room and talk to my friends about it at school.

Miles Jacobson: Exactly. We kind of said at that point that we were the wrong people to be putting on esports events. It’s for the community to do it for other people.

We didn’t reach out to anyone, but we’ve had various approaches from other people over the years. We’ve let people experiment with it, and some of it worked, while some didn’t.

With FIFA, they had been reaching out and talking to Richard, who heads up our business development team. One day, he sent me a message saying, “I know I haven’t kept you in the loop on this, but I think now is the right time to talk to these guys. They have an idea, and it’s good.”

So, we arranged a meeting with them, and they presented their idea. Two hours later, the FIFA eWorld Cup featuring Football Manager was born.

Arthur Ray: So, it wasn’t a long time ago?

Miles Jacobson: It was earlier this year—January or February—when they came to see us. Their ideas were really good, so we decided to try it for a year and see what happens. If it worked well, we’d figure out how to integrate it into FM25.

I said in the dev blog a while back that if it worked, Fantasy Draft mode would come back in March as the qualifying tournament. We’re going to have conversations about this again in two weeks. Personally, I think it’s been brilliant.

Arthur Ray: You love the event? You’ve been watching it?

Miles Jacobson: I’ve been watching it over the last couple of days and watching some of the summaries that were happening. I think Zealand has done a brilliant job with the summarizing of it as well. Seeing some of the press conferences that have been going on.

But actually coming here today to Liverpool…

Arthur Ray: You feel?

Miles Jacobson: I’m not usually an emotional person, but when I walked through the door today, I got really emotional. The only word I could say was, “Wow.” At the whole setup, seeing people from around the world—teams from India and Indonesia…

Arthur Ray: Yeah, it’s huge. We had them in our group.

Miles Jacobson: It’s just incredible how this game, originally made in two brothers Oliver and Paul Collyer’s bedroom, 30 years later, has a World Cup event put on by FIFA. With people from around the world being recognized by their football associations, and it worked. People are watching it, and they are really enjoying it, and the people taking part in the event are really enjoying it.

I’ve seen another level to Football Manager that I didn’t know existed through this event. I hope FIFA feels the same because I want to do this again. I want to do it bigger, and I want to do it better because there are always learnings every year from everything, every day. You can tell that I’m really excited. Different stages of emotion, from first looking in going, “Wow,” to where I am now, having watched a lot of things happening during the day. It’s incredible. Thank you for being part of it, and thanks to everyone there who’s been watching because that’s what makes this event so important. This is important, what we have done today, because it’s going to take the next leap for Football Manager to be played competitively.

Arthur Ray: Honestly, when you announced the World Cup, I wasn’t expecting much. I don’t like Fantasy Draft mode; it’s not how I play Football Manager. I love playing career mode and beating the computer. But the format FIFA came up with—three days, three seasons, with a mix of versus-computer and head-to-head matches—who’s the best versus-computer…

Miles Jacobson: And that’s genius. Putting a time limit on it, which none of us have when playing at home, adds that competitive edge. Someone messaged me on Twitter recently saying, “This would be a great game mode.” I told them, “You already have this. It’s FM24.”

Arthur Ray: So many people are asking for the database to practice at home.

Miles Jacobson: You’ve got it. You’ve already got it.

Arthur Ray: For the French community, it was a huge event. It’s not finished because the final is tomorrow. But it’s like you said—very emotional. When the French manager lost, he started crying. It was so emotional, it’s like being a real manager.

Miles Jacobson: Absolutely. It’s why the football associations got involved as well. That’s what they want to see—they want people to be treated as they are here representing their country. That’s what’s been happening today. All of the managers here, all of the assistant managers here—you are representing your countries. That’s huge. It’s incredible.

Arthur Ray: Do you want to say anything else about this event?

Miles Jacobson: It’s been quite eye-opening. I’ve learned a lot today. I’ve learned a lot about how people play the game.

Arthur Ray: What have you learned specifically?

Miles Jacobson: Just seeing the emotion from people playing the game…

Arthur Ray: You’ve lost it when you play Football Manager at home?

Miles Jacobson: I think when I play at home, I do it all in my head, and I think a lot of people do it in their heads. But actually seeing people jumping up and punching the air, seeing people doing little dances when things happen… Maybe they have better personalities and they might do that at home normally. But seeing it happen, seeing the friendships being created as well as the rivalries being created with people from all over the world, with different languages—it’s… I’ve been working on Championship Manager and Football Manager for 30 years. It’s kind of rare now, getting a really new experience going into something. And today was a new experience. It’s really difficult to describe.

Arthur Ray: Same for me. I couldn’t imagine it when I arrived. We were in shock, me and Olivier, behind the camera, “Wow, it’s wonderful.” When we started the live, so many people were watching. I love the format…

Miles Jacobson: And the way the technology is really easy to use for people doing the streams. One thing people haven’t seen is the backstage area and the production. I’ve been in productions for football matches. I’ve been to places where 15 football matches are being screened at the same time, and that’s the setup in there. It’s brilliant.

Arthur Ray: It’s a huge setup—lots of people to coordinate the event, lots of people to manage the players too. We are very cool; we have drinks, we have food. The venue is amazing. We are all at the same hotel, and after the games, we talk. Football Manager is a very beautiful game. No other game gives me the same emotional connection.

When you say you are surprised by this…

Miles Jacobson: Only because for me, it’s inside of my head.

Arthur Ray: Yeah, in your head. But maybe when you’re on a bus, you think, “I’m gonna change the tactic, make a transfer, renew with this guy,” don’t you?

Miles Jacobson: I think of that stuff all the time, but I don’t celebrate out loud.

Arthur Ray: I celebrate very much.

Miles Jacobson: But look, it’s been wonderful and good to meet you…

(SCREAMS OF CELEBRATIONS)

Miles Jacobson: That’s Poland being happy in the background.

Arthur Ray: That’s the emotion of Football Manager.

Miles Jacobson: Exactly, that’s the emotion. But now we need to work out a way that everyone can enter, everyone can play. That’s what we need to work out for next year.

Arthur Ray: Just to finish—the Belgium team manager, he’s a member of my community. He works from home, and he plays Football Manager, but he never streamed a video. So it was like a dream come true to bring him here, playing Football Manager in a Belgium shirt. I would love to see in FM25 or FM26 a qualifier so everyone who’s watching here could say, “I can be the next.”

Miles Jacobson: So do we. We’ll sit down with FIFA after the tournament. They already know if they want to go ahead with another one, we want too.

Arthur Ray: I think they are surprised by the event.

Miles Jacobson: I think they are happy.

Arthur Ray: Thank you, Miles.

Miles Jacobson: Thank you, and cheers!