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#562148 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yes and no.
This is version 6 string with what we think changes our problem.
"theoretical_min_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_do": 375, // 1s - 4 slices
"theoretical_max_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_do": 750, // 0.3s - 1.2 slices
"theoretical_min_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_receive": 250, // 0.625s - 2.5 slices
"theoretical_max_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_receive": 750, // 0.275s - 1.1 slices
This is version 7 string
"theoretical_min_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_do": 875, // 1s - 4 slices
"theoretical_average_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_do": 1250, // 1s - 4 slices
"theoretical_max_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_do": 3500, // 0.3s - 1.2 slices
"theoretical_min_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_receive": 1000, // 0.625s - 2.5 slices
"theoretical_max_potential_delay_for_force_opponent_to_lose_ball_receive": 2000, // 0.275s - 1.1 slices
So billgates have added a new average to the string, and the numbers are increased, but the increased numbers to delay is more complex and got to do with other changes too. But so far, would I say the idiotic behavior of them kicking the ball out at odd times, is reduced, but not gone. To be honest, many of the stupid behaviors, is not something that will probably ever be fixed completely by psychical ME changes, but at least we can smoothen the edges.
#562126 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
This is mostly Billgates work, and some other guys from the Korean forums before him. They opened up for this opportunity, and should get all the credit.
Also, this could be patched by SI, and we still don't know what changes comes with FM21. But i'm in the same ballpark as you, as it looks now. Modders, skinners and the community as whole, is making the game go from average to excellent. But most people will buy FM21, and therefore will modding move on too, with or without possibilities to changes in ME files working in FM21. I surly hope they do, but SI's replies could suggest they wont.
I just hope they listen to the community. They might not tell us, but this should impact them, and what they work on. These are simple changes, and they made the game better for thousands of players, if not hundreds of thousand in a week or two.
They tell us, that it "alter the balance of play, outside normal life permitteres."
That is the main concern of theirs. And it is completet BS. Both inside the engine and in the simulation. I have gone through at least 5 seasons in two different saves by now, both lower leauges and Primer league mixed. Everything points to the contrary to me. It feels more realistic, 100% for sure in the 3D engine, and also in the results, season stats and points on the tables. So I call BS on SI yet again, and got no idea where this should be unrealistic and out of normal life permitters ... for sure not compared to the normal, witch looks like something that flows worse then Cykling manger 2005. And that is harsh on Cykling Manager 2005.
#562110 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Soon. Billgates want a few more small changes to the numbers done, but version 7 is really close. It is not a major patch, just overall making the feeling of flow, and realisme better.
@Thiago Soares dos Santos is also helping with testing now, and we are fiddling a lot with the coding, trying different stuff, to open up for potential new or better patches in the future.
#561945 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Possibly, since the game would try to load any file named physical_constraints
But it could be something else entirely too.
#561938 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Alright. Can't say I have any idea what make this happen. But I'll try and recreate the issue on my own, and see if this can be fixed, or if billgates know something from the Korean forums.
#561933 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
It should actually specifically not do that, and only work from the next game.
I haven't seen it, and I'm copying and delting different versions of the mod all the time, so this is indeed odd.
Am i to understand you correct, that you know more people with this issue?
#561929 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
I have seen a few YouTube videos already, but something with commentary, could possibly be something of use in the description for billgates, as a good showcase. Send him a PM, or make it anyway if you want to
#561920 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
It changes all players physical behaviors. Such as, acceleration, deceleration, turning speeds, delays, diving, walking speed, jogging speed, max sprint speed, ball distribution and the potential/theoretical possibilities of those sort of things.
#561899 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Could be, I'll test it.
#561881 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yeah I have noticed this too. Some defenders do this as well. Not completely sure what it is yet. Nothing logical change this behavior, expect from people on no nonsense doing it more frequently. Sometimes it is a positive thing, and sometimes, like your case, is it completely off and stupid. This is something I would really like to figure out, as it is one of the only negative effects of the engine, right now as I know of.
#561880 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Not yet. I'm testing it, and I'll let billgates upload it on his terms. But we do have most of the numbers down I think. Probably uploaded tommrrow.
#561878 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yeah I knew it was the case, but I had no idea it was this bad.
I haven't really dogged into the FM community much before now, expect from lurking and stealing great mods for almost two decades. lol
Well about competition. That will be a tough one, even for the biggest communities backed by millioners and former staff members. But I don't know. There seems to be plenty of big forums and active players according to just steam, let alone the new platforms and pirates. This is a big game, but must be one of the worst updated games in the world compared to the players per day. People love football, and people love managing. But right now football manager is going in the direction of Football simulating, and not actually Football managering. Have been for years honestly, and sure we all like a good spreadsheet, but the match engine is so scuffed it compares more to Cycling manager 2005 then anything else. Scuffed as and might even be talking down to Cykling manager 2005, that is arguably a better engine, just for another sport manger game.
But what can we do? They own the game, we borrow and lease a (new) version each year. We are the xxxxs doing it, and should stop doing it, and start connect the forums and communities to actually have a voice that would be herd, if not shown in the red.
#561872 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Nah, it was cleared up. I guess I'm not noticing what sort of foul is given. Have never really thought about it. But there seems to be plenty of handballs, did a couple of others users write anyway.
#561867 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Hopefully so. I think they are just going the Trump road, deny, deny, deny.
I have seen this from way to many developers in later years. And they all end up the same, with an alienated community and opportunities for earning money. I'm not sure what is happening in these meeting rooms, and the decisions made. Not only at SI but in general from many developers. The road they are going down, have been on for years, is a dead end. The community will leach out at some point, and do something drastic. Again, we have seen that before, usually with help from a few inside the company. I would not be surprised this happen to Football Manager too, if it all, there are any passionated staff members at SI left.
Everyone seeing this mod for the first time, is thinking "Naaah, that is BS," but then see the positive respons, try it, and is on the train too. Why is that? Be course it is better, and more enjoyable to watch.
I have played version 6, over 3 seasons now, I have tested version 7 for 20 matches in a Tottenham test save, and I call BS on this being less realistic simulations and result wise in the long run, as Neil Brock would like us to believe. I actually beg to differ, its seems more realistic both in the game, and the simulation right now. That is, if you like random stuff to happen like in real. Realisme is not having the same table, after you simulated 20 saves. No, realisme is that the table would fluctuate more, and odd teams, sometimes end up in odd placements.
#561833 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yeah, I don't think we can completely remove this. Really been one of the most annoying things in FM for many years. The next update, should ... maybe, have removed most, of this behaviors. In 10 games with the new numbers, have I not seen anything too bad of this behavior, and billgates are still tweaking the numbers for potential delay. Actually is most of the changes so far, in the delay area.
#561832 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
I'm currently working with billgates on the next update. Give us more feedback here, and you can be sure he will take it into consideration and be tested.
#561788 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Can't say I have, and I can't find anything about hand balls or fouls related to it in the ME file, where it should be.
You might be on to something here. With hand balls having a big impact in real games, am I surprised to learn, that this might not even be in the game. And the fact, that with 2450 hours in FM20, haven't noticed it or wondered about it.
#561770 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
#561766 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yeah true. I was ... I guess, I'm pessimistic when it comes to this sort of ideas for FM.
It is something we all have dreamed about for decades, and never seen the smallest hint of. Either from modders or SI, but I do understand your thought process ... if brilliant Koreans can do this, what else can they do?
But I'm pessimistic. Both about getting any graphical changes implanted, us having this ME file to config for FM21, or FM21 having any changes worth buying it for. The best thing about being pessimistic, is when someone like billgates come along, and do stuff like this, I will be pleasantly surprised and overwhelmed.
#561758 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
The ME file is not changing anything graphicly, and there are already a pretty good sound mod on fmscout:
https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm20-better-crowd-sounds-mod.html
I would love to have 4k res and fifa graphics, but that aint gonna happen in this game.
#561752 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Same here, I'm very reluctant to buy the game early on, this time around.
We, as fans of the game, should not buy a product, just be course it got a new number, color scheme and a database update, that could (is) easily made by modders, better and larger. I say no, especially if they directly try to hinder us in making it a better game with modding. That is against what any game developer should stand for. All the games I have played the most, expect from this, is from developers that embrace the modding community.
#561733 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yeah great showcase, this is even a minor one, but for sure something you wont see in original ME. What is more important, is the fluidity of the attack. That little flick header, would happen normally, but would not look that good.
#561719 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Took a look my self, I'm no coder, but this looks pretty easy to understand. Pretty amazed it only needed some few number changes in a json file to get that sort of behavior on the pitch. btw, this is not placebo. Yes there are still plenty of things not changed, and it is not perfect by any imagination. Still got some animations that feels odd (such as a volley, where the player just looks out of place hitting the ball,) but for people that have played this game thousands of hours each year, is the changes crystal clear, and a whoooole lot more fluid overall gameplay.
Anyway thanks for clearing up some things. I still believe these number changes to speed, delays, and accelerations. actually changes how the player numbers interact with it. There are just some things, that seems completely different, such as heading, and contact between players, and must be impacted indirectly by this. I might also try to play around with all the numbers for deflecting balls and blocks, as I can see this is a direct change, and might be a little bit to heavily changed by billgates, with the amount of corner and throw ins I see. Though it do look nice on the pitch and more real for lower leauges, is the stats just off when it comes to higher leauges in this department.
#561640 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
I still don't understand why it wont work for you. I think you are the first official case, of it not working, looking through other forums where it is posted. I mean, i'm happy you got the game to work again, but you are missing out on something good, if you not trying to get the mod to work. Is it just crashing right away when you tried to load FM? or what happend?
#561595 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Not exactly. But in lower leauges my tactic have changed slightly in a direction of playing for set pieces by having tons of positions on the opponents side (if possible) Using a good freekick/corner taker and a guy with long throws, with players that got good physics to fight for the ball in the air, seems to take advantage of the fact that there are more throw ins and corners. That have created more goals then what I believe it usually would have for me. Erhm, when it comes to half good teams and good teams, I think some sort of short passing style tactic with plenty of creative players could be an exploit, but its to early to say. I'm more focused on lower leauges.
My current tactic, with 4th division Lura in Norway. Don't be fooled by the custom tiki taka, they are not barca, but I do have more possession then my opponent (55% overall would be my guess). I'm predicted midtable, but is currently second in the league. This tactic, is something I have used for years, but not with (play for set pieces) and I have also changed some roles and instructions that didn't seem to fit with the new match engine.
#561573 What database to download?(Swedish Lower Divisions)
RellomQ
I'm afraid not. At least not what I know of. Seems like Sanguine decided to only upload through steam a year or two ago, instead of some 3rd party side. So yeah, make sure to get FM21 on steam lol. Sorry. Actually a bit odd that no one made any lower League Swedish divisions this year, both Norway and Denmark got decent lower division option from multipile creators.
#561564 FM Gemini '20 Skin
RellomQ
#561559 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
Yup, that is all you need to do. And then restart FM and let the magic begin. Works on all saves too.
#561555 What database to download?(Swedish Lower Divisions)
RellomQ
#561547 Football Manager 2020 realistic match engine patch
RellomQ
What would Mourinho do? I asked myself. He would play a multitude of formations throughout the season, and he would change the shape and responsibilities in the games. So, I went into this save, unlike my normal way of playing, where I would keep the overall tactic the same, throughout games, but that was changed for this save. I did this for two reasons, to see how well the players react to a new shape, roles, tactics, and how it would change the games in the new match engine.
Comparison to lower league save - Positive
- In general, I saw players do what they should do, and as they do in real life. Sissoko running up and down that midfield, Lamela tackling aggressively like a mad man, lo celso ding balls or run with it, Kane shooting from anywhere, and Son run into space. Now, I might just be the next Mourinho, but I have played with Tottenham saves plenty of times before, and I have never had this sort of relesime. Mostly down to the new animations & more strict roles I guess, and not my Mourinhoisk skills.
Comparison to lower league save - Negative- I hoped for a bigger impact overall. The changes are there, but there should be a more noticeable change from Norwigan 4th division players, to the likes of Sonny and Kanes when watching the game.
Morinhoisk tactics- I felt like a manager, like a Morinho changing the game and the outcome of it. Instead of sim for 60 minutes, making 2 subs, siming 20 more minutes, making the last sub, and hopefully winning the game, only seeing key highlights mostly. The game should be a manager game, not a siming game, where this mod helps you in the right direction to feel like a manager (if you let it.)
Stats & numbers - Negative & positive.- I noted down from 13 games at Tottenham the overall numbers per game from both teams. I then went back to my Norwagian 4th division save and found 13 games and compared it, here are the results of some important stats:
Premier league stats:Throwins: 46.7
Corners: 18.4
Fouls: 21.2
Passing: 86.4%
Goals: 2.2
Norwegian 4th Division:
Throwins: 43.9
Corners: 21.5
Fouls 20.3
Passings: 62.9%
Goals: 1.7
- I also made a small comparison with headers in both saves. Where the lower leagues players with good air capabilities, are overwhelming the less fortunate players in the air.
Headers won per 90:Harry Kane: 4,75
Toby Alderwireld: 4.30
Compared to my best in the air in the Norway save:
Birger Moen(Taget man):7.43
Ivar Waage(Central Defender): 6.83
Numbers do seem to be affected. Maybe not directly, but then indirectly by the new engine.
It really shines in the lower leagues, and where players got more fluctuating
numbers.
This is a must have mod, especially for a journeyman.
Personally, would I play with this, no matter the save I load up.
The positives outnumber the negatives in a large scale.
@Billgates if you need anything specific tested, hit me up on discord.