maconnolly - Comments

Player has moved to a club not in the database. Marking him as Released as believe that is the most sensible way to represent this move. Will look out for the moderation on this one and will take a rejection to mean this was not the right thing to do…

Not a completely official source for confirming his retirement, but the following post contains a screengrab from the player's own announcement, seemingly from Instagram:

https://www.owlstalk.co.uk/forums/topic/332203-joost-van-aken/

I've started to contribute changes to the overall Data Update. It is surprisingly addictive to just rattle through and submit them. I'm focusing on lower-valued players, because I think there will be no shortage of people submitting the transfers and moves of higher-valued players. With that in mind, a couple of quick questions from me:

1. In general, if a player is transferred to a ‘second team’ (or specifically a youth team, e.g. an Under 21 side) - do we just submit that as the player being transferred to the parent/main team in all cases?
    
2. If a player has been transferred to a club that is not in the database, what should we do? Release them, or leave them at their previous club?

Validated identify via additional source, below, which also confirms transfer:

https://villanovense.es/web20/comunicado-oficial-joan-rusinol/

Moved from Universidad O&M to Jonica, however not represented in database. Validated player's identity via the following second source, also confirming the transfer:

https://www.notiziariocalcio.com/serie-d/ufficiale-paterno-ha-firmato-papito-304110

Validated that this is, indeed, Alvaro Ruiz (commonly known as ‘Ruizma’) through this additional source, which also confirms the transfer:

https://www.areacostadelsol.com/2024/07/21/el-centrocampista-alvaro-ruizma-nueva-incorporacion-al-cd-estepona/

Side-note: previous transfer from Nissa FC to Favara was not represented in the database.

Transfer was from ASD Vertovese - however, his time at ASD Vertovese was never reflected in SortItOutSI database.

He has actually been transferred from CD Rota, but that transfer was never registered in the update.

…and that is really useful to know; there was an element of that dynamic re-numbering that I suspected may be the case. Obviously, for myself personally, my test conditions retained the same combination of editor data, coupled with different baseline database versions.

I may pursue this as a personal project just because I enjoy the process and like enriching my own game - but knowing that there's really no guarantee around it working makes me re-consider whether it's worthwhile, overall.

I've done a quick bit of testing - it's clear that the underlying, official FM database effectively ‘dictates’ which Unique IDs are assigned to the teams added by the Lower Leagues DB. There must be some logic that does this to enable compatibility - which is a good idea, in general.

The effect, of course, is that the latest FM 2024 database update (the latest 24.3 version) makes my work on logos to this point incompatible (or incorrect).

I have also validated that there is no ‘randomisation’ or ‘regeneration’ of the unique IDs assigned to teams between games (i.e. starting a new game, with the same combination of database/editor data results in the same unique IDs every time), just in case.

With all that in mind - I am going to have a go at re-mapping what I have done so far to the new unique IDs and, of course, any future logo packs will use the latest unique IDs.

My assumption is that the team ID changes stem from the latest FM 24 database update. I suspect the Lower Leagues DB file is pivoting its changes due to that.

My ‘test game’ is on the previous version of the FM 24 DB. I suspect when I have time to start a new test game, I'll experience the same.

I'm not sure there is a solution besides changing the definitions in my logo packs. I'll take a look and report back on what I decide.

I'll be honest, I haven't kept up with the latest releases from Dan - I don't own FM 2024 through Steam, so I am not subscribed to the database that way.

Suffice to say, if all of the team IDs have changed that would render everything I've done so far pretty redundant for use with the latest versions…FWIW, the version I have is the one currently available via https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm24-database-england-lower-leagues.html. I don't know how that stacks up against the versions on Steam. From a quick look, I see there have been two releases since then (well, four, but I suspect two meaningful ones with two bugfixes).

To answer your actual question: I cannot think of a simple workaround to the issue. It's effectively a question of re-mapping old IDs to new IDs. If I end up having no option but to get to the latest version of the Lower Leagues DB, I would probably just go back through the work I've done so far and re-map…but that's a big if because it's a lot of work and will be a bit soul-destroying to do it.

Yes, although my solution is fairly ‘extreme’ from the logos perspective: I've embarked on a journey of making my own logo pack for all of the lower levels (starting from Level 20 and working up).

The reality is that the solution involves identifying the old ID of the team, finding that logo, renaming the file and amending the XML file to reflect that adjustment.

The individual download for Level 18 of the pyramid can be found attached to this post. The first post of this thread contains the single attachment for all levels created thus far.

The next update will be for the entirety of Level 17 - consisting a total of 36 divisions, comprising a lot of clubs (I haven't counted yet).

The individual download for Level 19 of the pyramid can be found attached to this post. The first post of this thread contains the single attachment for all levels created thus far.

The next update will be for the entirety of Level 18 - consisting a total of 17 divisions, comprising 174 clubs.

The individual download for Level 20 of the pyramid can be found attached to this post. The first post of this thread contains the single attachment for all levels created thus far.

The next update will be for the entirety of Level 19 - consisting a total of six divisions, comprising 59 clubs.

I've taken my first baby steps towards contributing towards the Metallic Logos, specifically to try and enrich the visuals for the Lower Leagues in England.

The attached download (which will evolve over the coming days/weeks/months, significantly I hope) is intended for those that use the FM24 English Lower Leagues Database.

Thus far, I've created the competition and club logos for Levels 18-20 (attachment: L18-20.zip), which comprises of the following competitions:

Level 18:

Birmingham & District League Division Six

Bristol & District League Division Four

Central & South Norfolk League Division Two

Devon & Exeter League Division Six

Huddersfield & District Association League Division Five

Lancashire & Cheshire Amateur League Division A

Leicestershire County League Division Three

Lowestoft & District League Division One

Mid Sussex Football League Division Six

Mid-Essex League Division Two

North East Norfolk Football League Division Two

North Northumberland League

North West Norfolk League Division Two

Sevenoaks & District League Division Three
Stroud & District League Division Five North
Stroud & District League Division Five South

Yorkshire Amateur League Division Five

Level 19:

Central & South Norfolk League Division Three

Devon & Exeter League Division Seven

Lancashire & Cheshire Amateur League Division B

Lowestoft & District League Division Two

Mid-Essex League Division Three
Stroud & District League Division Six

Level 20:

Central & South Norfolk League Division Four

Devon & Exeter League Division Eight

Lancashire & Cheshire Amateur League Division C

Lowestoft & District League Division Three

Mid-Essex League Division Four

At this level, many of the competitions/clubs are not in the official FM 2024 database and therefore there is no method for me to upload the work into the central megapack. I am hoping posting this thread, here, is the right alternative thing for me to do. Love all of the work by the community here and just wanted to give something back.

Not 100% sure on whether Andy Pugh continues to be a member of the playing squad, or solely a coach…erring on the side of caution and leaving him as Player/Coach, based on the Phoenix Sports FC website I cited.

Not sure entirely what to set as the ‘Contract Start Date’ so have left it as-is. As best I can tell, Ryan Hayes has been operating as Assistant Manager since around the start of 2024. Extra evidence of the club referring to him in his joint-role, here:

https://www.phoenixsportsclub.co.uk/news/sitting-down-with-ryan-hayes-2829536.html

Apologies - no I didn’t. I will do that, though!

Contract end-date based on the one-year extension signed, as per this article:

https://hydeunited.co.uk/2023/05/27/nick-spooner-signs-a-contract/

@Footygamer - not sure if this is ‘fair’ etiquette, but as someone interested in contributing to the accuracy for the Lower Leagues of England, I noticed that Matthew Salisbury's unapproved ‘SI Missed’ submissions are all accurate. I spot-checked a handful as well as coming across a few others where I wanted to submit them, only to notice he already had.

I wonder whether those could be approved on the strength of my check just to get them into the DB update?

The Lower Leagues DB (I've got the one down to Level 14), for whatever reason, sets the original Doncaster City (UID: 2000266392) as extinct and replaces them with a second instance of Doncaster City (UID: 2000339433). I think that accounts for the players/staff who have been assigned to the original club not showing up. At least that would be my theory.

It's hard to tell (quickly) whether there are a lot of clubs where this has been done…but my very initial poking around suggests this isn't a very common approach for this DB. I filtered for semi-professional or amateur clubs, based in England, that were extinct with at least one database change and the total number was 33. That doesn't even necessarily mean the changes made were to set it as extinct…but it's an indicator, at least.

As an aside, I'm going to spend a bit of time to try and hustle my way through the lower leagues (in the Editor) and see if there are a few simple changes I can apply to update the player/staff representation wherever possible. Obviously it's a mammoth task - but if I come across such duplicates, I'll cut the people across to the ‘new’ club, alongside starting with getting key non-playing staff updated, so that more of the clubs have managers (at least) at the start of a new game.

Whether I can get the playing staff filled in to a reasonable degree is another matter - information becomes limited as you go down the ladder but, also, it's just a ton of work.

Edit: I've done a quick scan of the clubs that are extinct that I cited earlier in my post. Their extinction, is all cases, is spot on - including that of Doncaster City. I was curious, so I went looking - but Doncaster City effectively withdrew from the league system in 2023 and reformed after a year absence. Therefore, I can understand the reasoning behind creating a new instance of them.

Most of the other clubs that have been made extinct are either clubs that have dissolved, or clubs that have merged with others - and in all cases, the new club is represented in the Lower Leagues DB. From my checks, Doncaster City and Redcar Newmarket appear to be two that have been replaced by clubs with an identical name (and perhaps are, in fact, ‘the same club’).

Edit #2: I did a quick check, out of curiosity, to see how many mismatches there could be from the SortItOutSI.net database in to the Lower Leagues DB. There really are very few. The full list of extinct clubs I could find and their source of extinction is as below. The first club listed is the ‘extinct’ club. The second club listed is the club that replaces them, where applicable. Replacement clubs that do not exist in the 24.3 database (and therefore can't have people added to them as part of the SortItOutSI.net database update) are italicised.

Extinct in 24.3 (official DB):

Bromsgrove (621) --> Bromsgrove Rovers (2000340541)
Buckingham Athletic (94038815) --> Buckingham (2000271105)
Bury AFC (2000020194) --> Bury (623)
East Thurrock Utd (5103648) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Heath Hayes (7940427) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Kent Football Utd (90069974) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Rye (30005424) --> Rye Town (2000338210)
Sidlesham (5103785) --> Fishbourne (2000338780)
Southwick (8325053) --> dissolved (not replaced)

Extinct in Lower Leagues DB only:

Broxbourne (8325073) --> Broxbourne Badgers (2000339150)
Coggeshall United (2000024740) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Crowle (2000266389) --> Crowle Colts (2000337574)
Dearne & District (2000266390) --> Dearne & District (2000337340)
Doncaster City (2000266392) --> Doncaster City (2000339433)
Eltham Palace (90069968) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Epsom Ath (90069940) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Eye United (2000007052) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Gravesham (90069972) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Greenwich (5103797) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Littlehampton Utd (2000180974) --> dissolved (merged with East Preston)
New College Swindon (8325241) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Redcar Newmarket (2000256464) --> Redcar Newmarket (2000337647)
Ringmer (5103782) --> Ringmer AFC (2000337618)
Solihull Utd (2000018168) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Sporting Club Inkberrow (2000266387) --> Inkberrow (2000337516)
Team Bury (94012187) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Team Dudley (94052914) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Thrapston Town (8325067) --> Thrapston Venturas (2000338515)
Upton AA (74037551) --> dissolved (not replaced)
Whyteleafe (5100206) --> AFC Whyteleafe (2000205377)
Willenhall (5103728) --> dissolved (not replaced)

Is it normal/expected that the unique IDs of the teams in the lower divisions are different from the ones indicated in the original FM 24.3 database?

Just as a random example: Copthorne FC, who play in the Southern Combination League Division One. Their unique ID in the FM 24.3 database is 2000266386. In the new career game I have created, they show as having a unique ID of 2000337759.

I don't really know what the bearing is on gameplay of these being different (if any) but, for example, from a graphical perspective - their club logo doesn't work when using the the Metallic Logos megapack (because it is bound to 2000266386).

Sorry if this has been asked/explained and I haven't seen it: what is the right way for someone to contribute who wants to extend the database (for example, by adding new people that are not in the database to start with)?

I appreciate that to make those changes locally, for myself, I'd be doing those through the Pre-Game Editor - but I would be keen for those to be reflected into the community update if it was possible.

The things I am keen on doing are increasing the representation in the lower leagues in England because I (and I imagine many others) am a big fan of the English Lower Leagues DB.

Got it - let me get those re-worked so they are at the right zoom and re-submit!