Armamaddon - Comments

Havant & Waterlooville FC uses different sponsors on home, away and third

home: Bishops Printers

away: HSDC - Havant & South Downs College

third: AJ & MJ Plant Sales Limited

I did, I was pretty sure about it. Maybe we should test if there is a bug. It works fine with a config included.

Dinamo City (Albania) - ID 2000288897

Dinamo City (Albania) - ID 2000288897

the one submitted 22 Sep 2021 16:01:02 is the right one

I can't create my “downloads” in the 3D- and SS-kit section, after filling all forms it doesn't show up in the end, leading to an error

in the rar there are 3D files

I noticed (at least in my case) you can not edit this club in the Editor. It is placed in the league, but you can not reach it via ID or the list to edit something, also players don't show up. Any hint why? Also why has Naohiro Takahara an alternative name?

no AI will be better than a good handmade cut and correction

funfact is, I got that trophy from a club page 😀 thanks for the info

Oh, hell, I missed on that.

Is there a compression put on the final cut-outs? I see a lack of quality in the pack compared to the files from the database here.

this is no bug, the config itself can't handle special characters, it is based on UTF-8

Maybe, but also maybe not. I guess we don't come to the same point and this is also OK. I will not leave and once I finished my masters thesis I will put some work over here, no matter what system I have to face and to clarify, I like the point where the kits are linked to the IDs in the database.

They are different because to get one player, you need one picture and in most cases they look very similar, even when different people work on them and it is no problem if they vary a bit. But kits are completely different. Also I don't see why 12 people should work on one team? I know it is just a random number, but why? Please ask other creators about that. The kits will look different, the logos will have different sizes, maybe colors or different places and this would be quantity over quality. So in the end most of the leagues still will be in the hand of one creator (which is totally OK), at least one whole team. Most people do at least a complete set of one team (see in the presentation thread), there is no need to involve more people in that process (per team). With the new system there will be a lot more kits available for lets say lonely wolve teams for a wider community (e.g. a single team from El Salvador). This is a really good point and a lot of people will profit from that and not need to get single kits from the thread which are not part of league-packs. 

The option to take part in making kits is already given, no matter what system is placed. It is just not the same workload as we have with cutouts. I worked together with some other creators in the past and it was a very good experience to share and work together, but get stuff from lets say “normal people” 😀 is sometimes no help for the process. This is also no offense against all non-creators, some are really helpful. It is hard to get people to do kits, again, it does not matter what system of contribution they face, the problem is the work itself.

I would like to be wrong on my whole point, but what I have read here also from some creators is confusion or stating nearly my thoughts. It would be good to involve creators (especially the ones, who are the main contributors) into the whole discussion.

Maybe place the “old way” just below and maybe everyone is happy? I see it's not gone, but it's hidden compared to before. UI should be easy to use and most people are lazy. That is why I said “now there is no space for that” and I fear it will completely dissapear because of the new system (just my thoughts/"fears" on this).

I just made my point of what could be improved. I would never want to let the project die. But I also don't see a real reference between the numbers and a possible end or process of it. Also I don't see a real link between single-picture based stuff and league-wise stuff. You can't simply compare cutouts with SS-kits. But that's maybe just me. I don't say you are wrong and I'm right. I just state my point of view. Again you begin to not take my points seriously. I will not offend you but you act like that, it is clearly visible in the last paragraph. Come on, why should I want to kill a section I really like?

Numbers on participation don't reflect a bad system. It is no process where people think there should be something new for me to participate. You need to have creators who do kits and they are more rare than people who do cutouts, as it is compared more easy to do them. So you should ask creators what could make them feel better or support them to do kits. You have the opinion from 1 actually, I don't speak for everyone else, but doing kits is a hard job, as you need to collect stuff (pictures of teams and all the sponsors), search for the right templates or do one on your own and it is exhausting at all. I did a break of one season. Maybe others did the same or just don't want to have a workload like that. This is why numbers going down.

First of all, if I sounded rude, that was not my intention and excuse me if it came to your mind that way.

Instant is also kind of debatable. It is the same instant, like before, it is there, while is it offered (just with the negative point of searching). The manually made zips are in that way better, as they offer the option to chose from ordered leagues. As we could see before, certain leagues are more frequently downloaded than others. Next point, the count of updates does not mean if there was no update something went wrong. Besides the teamed German lower league file, I never needed to update any file, because from the start every kit was in or no kit had the need of an update. So a lot of them may be “perfect” as they are from the start. Even with your comparison I like the old way more and maybe I'm not the only one about it. I don't condemn the whole system. But as White Flag said, “It's not always necessary to reinvent the wheel. It's worked up to now so I don't understand why there is deemed a need to change things just for the sake of change.”

This is not a offense against your idea of improvement, but sometimes it is just a step to far to do so.

Yeah, but the problems stay the same. Also yeah, there may be people who do this, but we can name it speculations if there is a majority or not (also about my thesis). So why not offer both ways?

It is not a offense against you or your efforts. I really appreciate your efforts. But now, if you get a feedback, maybe it is a point to think about that some may not completely like it and also this should be OK. You implemented a whole (sometimes complex) system rather than let things just go as they were (fine). People may not respond, because they don't know this thread exists or simply don't care about reading, they are here for downloads, reading stories or uploading content. I explained myself and I feel not offended but somehow not taken seriously.

Speaking for me, I do my configs on my own, but I don't know what this app can handle. Let me just put my thoughts on this. I am not a programer and I don't know if it is possible, but it would be useful to organize a structure like it is listed within the site and game. For example if the kits are from FC Schalke 04 it should be placed in something like: ..\graphics\kits\UEFA\Germany\2. Bundesliga\ and ..\graphics\3dkits\UEFA\Germany\2. Bundesliga\ for 3d kits separately each with their own configs. This is just my ordering system, it may not be the best in the eyes of everybody. You should not forget there are also FC'12 kits or sources not coming from this page, which can easily get implemented in that way. Also you can easily check if there is a “better” version or something like that. In addition to the structure there should maybe be an option (checkbox?) for downloading the pack. What I mean? If you like England, Germany and Italy, but not Uzbekistan, Peru, Botswana and Malta, you can chose not to download them. I don't care about the names in general, I have my way to name the files, but if it is necessary to name them in another way to fit the system, I would do so. So in the end we could also have both systems: the zips + your system. Or creators could in the end offer a kind of zip together with their implemention (like if you upload several files e.g. for cutouts in a pack).

It is not weird. As a creator I can only speak for myself, but hammer is the gatekeeper of kits, lets say godfather of kits 😀 so it feels not like betrayal if he organizes the pack writing my name in the info. Also with every pack organized seperately you have a place of community, somebody can say thank you or give feedback on how to improve, correct something, add something or whatever. Now there is no space for that. There is no connection between creator and consumer.

In the end, it is what it is. To state my point (which is a negative one) I don't see to make it look somehow positive. I understand it is your baby and you want to raise it, totally understand it. But sometimes kids get not like you wanted them to be, even if you had the best thoughts on them and wanted the best. Not to say it may was not necessary to do all this. Again, it is 100% no front against you or your work. But you may have to face criticism if you change something by 180°. I guess nobody wants to offend you personally by doing so.

So in the end creators of kits of all kinds (I don't want to sound selfish) should definitly get their credit. Because it is the most exhausting part of all the graphics. See, bolid is doing like every village in England and does an amazing work, he should get the cheers he deserves for this. 

Maybe the best way (opinion) is to run both systems.

the “old way" is way way way more simpler (sorry, but how don't you know on your own page?)

first of all: the packs got updates, you even get a notice here when a pack you downloaded got an update. Most of the time they were faster than your 38 day example (especially bolid). Most of the kits in the kit-thread were sooner or later packed in a file, like for FM22 hammer9 and I did with the kits from German lower divisions.

In my opinion the old system offers everybody the option to choose the leagues he wants to download in a more precise way + the creator got a little credit. Also just my two pence to that, I think most of the people just don't update e.g. FM19 kits to like FM23 kits, because it causes a lot of problems (reason for SSKCC), especially with 3D kits. FM18/19 has different maps than FM20-23. Just speaking for me, but I just use the kits for the specific version, no older ones. With the old system also everybody can see e.g. Seria A 22-23 in a folder. Nobody needs to know if it is acmilan1.png, acm_1.png or milan_home.png, because the config does the part and every file has them in it. Even if you want to replace the old files, just delete the old folder and place the new folder. Simple.

Experienced users will face with the "new way" a lot of butthurt, my graphics folder is a fine pyramid e.g. in kits there are folders: 00Nations, AFC, CAF, CONCACAF, CONMEBOL, OFC, UEFA → each country has its own folder in these confederations and each league in the country folder. So it has a maximum of structure and I can easily change something by my own in seconds. Most names in the folders are clear, like I see zalgiris1.png in the ..\kits\UEFA\Lithuania\A Lyga folder is the first kit of Zalgiris, so if there is any updated image, I can just download that one image and replace it with the same name like the author did. Also it is easier to merge it with the FC12 files. Just place the specific folder in the right place or even pick some kits out and rename. Now it is just a big cloud of mixed files.

Megapacks are for the lazy ones. It is ok to give this option, but don't refuse to offer the old system as it was somehow perfect as it was. Also all the creators won't get their credits. It is a warm rain on the soul if you see how many times people downloaded your files or leave a small thanks.

Just wanted to mention, hammer9 did an awesome work to manage all these packs, I can understand to reduce his workload and don't want to kill his freetime 😀.

so finally, these are the right trophies (added them to the system)

Yeah, but even this is an outdated one, I will upload the recent one soon. The “actual” (in the pack) trophy is older than the last one.

Is there any way (here or the submissionsystem) you prefer to get the trophies from? To be honest, I liked how it was before. 😀 

Sorry, but this is not the right trophy, I got this league in my “to do”-folder and it looks different. This is an old version of the “Lübzer Cup”, the “Verbandspokal Mecklenburg-Vorpommern” (2000073336)

@Mateee 

Why you upload a "new" version with less contrast and sharpness? There is more potential in these good sources. I made a lot of teams from Uzbekistan and your cuts miss contrast and sharpness all the time, so they look faded. Please don't see this as a front against you as it is not meant to be.

Are there any news about the 3D-map of FM24? Will it be the same like 20-23?

First hit on Google and it even has a wikipedia entry with the trophy visible.

Of course I will 🙂

Here are the first two

A-Junioren Bundesliga - 92086571

Oberliga Niedersachsen - 35102297

Let's see. I will hope it will be as good as it is planned. The opportunities are definitely great. Just one thing with the Download for leagues/countries: there is a need of a config, will this also get generated?

There is a thread where everybody is allowed to show his/her work. It is allowed to anyone, no matter if it is bad and needs some updates or if it is perfect. Also everyone can ask the actual kit-makers for help or assistance. I can just speak for me, but all people who do kits are friendly with each other about help or sharing stuff. Just ask. My point is, with a system, where everybody is allowed to upload stuff, you will probably (just my thoughts on this) need more moderation on what is right/wrong or good/bad. Hammer was a great gatekeeper for all that. It is not that I would not allow people to upload their work, even if it is not perfect, I just miss any kind of regulation about it. I really like the implementation of this system, don't get me wrong.

I had no troubles to start, nobody invited me, I just sent something in and was part of the group. For me the reason for no or few new people is, that it is a big workload, even with templates. Research for kits, sponsors, the right kit-template (or doing a mixup) or even doing your own is taking time. Once you finished some leagues, the year is over and people ask you why there is no update on the new season.

about the psd-files:
most of them are shared, if you need some specific and it is not shared, ask the creator
I guess some don't share to the pack because the file is a mess in language and layers 
size depends ~ 1-3 MB

You should add some kind of upload-barrier, like you need to have certain kind of rank (e.g. kit-creator) or registration.

I always see quality-problems with such systems. 

he is a doublet of Ahmadullo Muqimjonov (https://sortitoutsi.net/football-manager-2023/person/2000165669/ahmadullo-muqimjonov)

good cut, but there is something missing on the right side of the top “ring” and something left on the bottom (next to the Isuzu band) is from the background