cephas.88 - Comments

Thank you for your comment and I appreciate your time and patience. This discussion is really useful and it can provide very valuable insights.

Any QME file, either being the QME distribution data, or the QME stat system, only handle leagues that are not in full detail. This means that this will not affect the player because that’s not the match engine being used when you, my or any other player uses with their own team.

This is what I’m trying to tell you. You are only changing values regarding all the leagues not in full detail, leagues that are not being played. 

Although one can argue that there’s an added value in that (for example, how AI players develop) it doesn’t change what the player sees during their own games. It might help improve the sense of immersion but it is not a true match engine mod that changes what players see during their own games. Or the league games in the league they play in or any other league with full detail.

For you to release any match engine mod that directly affects what the player sees during a match, then you need to shift your focus away from the QME. And focus on the files that truly allows you to do what was possible in FM24 with the match engine mods that were released back then

You continue to fundamentally misunderstand what the QME is. The quick match engine. Well, here you have three links from the SI forum that tells you what the QME is which is not what you think it is

First link - https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/592948-how-many-divisionsleagues-do-you-run-fm-with/#findComment-14779032

Second link - https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/590981-why-am-i-hogging-possession-with-nothing-happening/#findComment-14673901

Third link - https://community.sports-interactive.com/forums/topic/583592-best-fm/page/2/#findComment-14516753

Yes I do fully understand what the QME is and what the QME distribution data does. It is, bar some changes, the same as in FM24. Those two files, QME distribution data and QME stat relevant attribute data are used in leagues with no full detail. The leagues that players do not play in. That’s it, nothing more than that. It is the code that allows the game to calculate results and ratings in the wider FM universe, that slice of the universe that it is not in full detail.

This means you make another fundamental mistake.

If I am managing Chelsea in the Premier League, and if there’s a game between Arsenal and Man Utd, so two AI teams, that match will be using the full match engine since it is a league being playable and in full detail.

If I am managing in the Premier League but then I have the Championship as a selected league but with no detail at all (all detail removed) then the whole Championship will be using the QME while the Premier League uses the full match engine.

And this is your fundamental mistake. I am pointing this out to you so that you can correct it and focus on what actually changes what players see when they play a match

As mentioned before, what I am trying to tell you is that the QME files are not what you think they are. The QME files only apply for leagues that are not in full detail. It is a simplified version of the match engine. It doesn't apply to the leagues that are playable and in full detail. The QME files have existed for some time and they are inside the simatch file to provide the necessary code to simulate and process all the data for those leagues never selected as playable and not in full detail. Changing those files or adding more files related with QME will not have any effect whatsoever for what players see during their saves in the leagues they play in. Any comparative analysis is moot since, once again, the files will not be applicable during the 90 minutes players see when they play a match.

This means you can spend all the time in the world working on those files, even adding new ones, but you will be wasting your own time which can be used to alter the actual files that influence people's saves.

This, in summary, means that everything you wrote about the QME is not applicable. It doesn't work like that. You are missing the fundamental point here: the QME files are not what you think it is. To change the match engine you need to change the files that actually impact the gameplay.

This is not a translation issue between Korean and English, it is a fundamental point. The same with the match events file. That file doesn't have any effect during the 90 minutes of a match. It only changes stuff related with the audio and for possible commentary mods.

So if you wish to release a match engine mod then you should change the files that actually have an impact although you can try and do stuff in the margins which you did, fair play to you and good work on that…

I appreciate your reply and fair play to you.

But the main focus of my argument is the fact that the QME is not what you say it is so any changes there will not have any effect as detailed by your post.

In addition, the match events file is only related with the audio system in FM. Any changes there will have no material effect.

Finally, regarding new files is a hit and miss. Unless you have confirmation that the new files have a way to communicate with the source code then fine, but without that certainty is not guaranteed that new files have an effect. 

When you release a match engine mod you need to be extremely clear because you are changing game code and there will be indirect effects as a natural compromise which are unpredictable. This means that yes players will see changes but those are hard to quantify.

Fair play to your work but you are giving the wrong impression to players and the best way to build trust is to make sure your information is accurate and supported by a lot, a lot of testing so that your claims are backed up by data…

Just a note of caution.

The main focus of this mod is the QME. Well… QME is not what it is described here. QME is the version of the match engine (the match engine is the same, but this is the simplified version) uses for leagues not in full detail so it helps the game to process those leagues in the background.

It doesn't have any kind of influence for the leagues the players have with full detail. Other files apply.

Regarding adding new files, those new files only work if the source code can read them and based on FM24 that's not possible. Although the file structure has changed in 26 with the addition of two new files, adding files with no relation with the source code (that only SI has access to) has an empty effect.

Nevertheless this mod includes some changes, but not to the extent that it is shared here based on the above points…

Note: the match_events.xml is also mentioned… that file only deals with the probability of a certain line of commentary triggering a sound in the game, nothing else…

Sorry to say but the tool you mentioned creates more problems than the ones it solves.

The skin creators also didn’t give the author written authorisation for the tool to host their skins.

Adding to this, this tool creates more headaches for skin creators because it allow for people to mix and match skins, without the proper knowledge of how to do it.

This will lead to people pointing out to skin creators bugs that the original skins do not have, and that only exist because of that mix and match.

Sortitousi should do a proper due diligence before writing these kind of posts.

Like I said, you have the tool to try and have a light skin. Go for it because the existing skins were made by people that started from scratch and learned via trial and error.

There's a FAQ in how to use the FM Skin Builder tool in the FM Match Lab discord server, channel “fm skin builder”

The beauty of the tool, FM Skin Builder, is that it is easy of use, it has documentation in the website to help newcomers, it has a FAQ in its Discord channel in the FM Match Lab’s server, Zims Mula has a video about it, and there’s a video that tells how to install skins in a Mac. Adding to this, there’s a dedicated channel in the above mentioned server where people can ask for help,

Therefore, for the OP and any other comments complaining about dark skins, be our guest and use the tool. Do it yourself like the skin creators thar started from scratch and learned to use the tool by, well, using the tool via trial and error…

Thank you for your reply.

My feedback and criticism is only intended to help you. If I am harsh it is because I am just like this. I believe that complacency is the enemy of success. I believe that this new era of FM needs a thriving modding community and you are part of that.

I will download your updated version. But I have one question: should we wait for an updated version after the official update from SI?

Thank you

Let’s call it how it is.

You copied Tini’s work, bundled it has your own, and now that Tini can show screenshots that show you copied him without approaching him for authorisation, theres no way for you to hide it.

It would be best if you just admit to copying it and not doing the proper thing. Which was to speak with Tini first before you publicly shared this skin which is basically a copy past and a flagrant one.

You wrote “Layout structure inspiration – MrTini23”.

Do you mean blatantly copy pasting the work without directly asking for authorisation to use his assets? You know, a bit of courtesy…? Or do you think that's not important and you can offer your skin, copying the work, and passing it as your own work?

I would be interesting to understand what you think…

Although criticism based on subjective opinions such as “what looks good” is fine and well, the way you you criticise it seems you are Picasso.

If you are so experienced then why don't you publish your own skin for FM26?

Besides, if you are such an experienced skinner, what about sharing your previous work so it can be judged the same way you are judging this one?

That would be fair, don't you agree?

Approaching the end of the second season and I don't see this. Tactics work as before, nothing of ordinary in terms of how managers operate during the 90 minutes, AI managers are not more active or reactive versus what we have with default files, and so on.

Considering you are not making any changes to the match engine, I think the changes you are making only touch the margins. Changing managers attributes do not change the fundamentals of the match engine. Without changing those fundamentals, the promised results are not achieved or at least not achieved in the way you describe.

Changes made via the game editor, although not cosmetic, can only provide very small increments that do not change the reality of the game. The best feedback I can give you is that, unless you make more sweeping changes, or change even more things like Dave does, or you make sweeping changes to the match engine like it was done in 24, then, although you are trying to do a good thing, it will be very limited in scope.

In addition, it will be very important to have a much more comprehensive approach to hard data: tests, results and so on that provide the basis of your work so that peer review can be done in a more efficient way.

Okay so…

“Big thank you to DARKSIDE63 for providing the SKINBUILDER and BASE.”. Do you honestly think this is giving proper due credit to the person and people that spent countless of hours working on the tool and the first skins so that you can publish yours?

You do not credit the tool's, FM Skin Builder, creator nor you proper credit the work that Darkside did and how much he helped you.

Be honest with the public and do the honourable thing and give proper credit to those who worked tirelessly, for hundreds of hours, so that you can publish your skin and receive the plaudits for it.

Okay, let's make sure you can be honest with the public first of all.

“My tile transparency”? No, you didn't manage to do that. You don't even give credit to the right person that helped you, that explained it to you, that taught you how to do this.

You are entitled to publish your own work of course. But as a courtesy, at minimum, you should, in a very explicit way, give proper credit to the author of the tool and the creator of the skin you base your work on.

It is also a matter of honesty with the public. Because you receive plaudits based on your work which is derivative (when you copy and past work from other people without giving proper credit), plus the original part you add.

Therefore, make sure you give proper credit and in a very public way so that people actually know who you based your work on. Those who spent countless hundred of hours so that you can share something.

I tried this file again and unfortunately it remains the same.

This file doesn't change anything related to the match engine. The final test was to see if previous results and highlights change. They don't. Any match engine mod that makes actual changes to the right files will mean that, when seeing previous matches, the results and highlights are different. This doesn't happen with this file. This is because it only changes two files not related with the match engine: a file that determines the probability of a line of commentary and sound to be displayed and played, and the second file is the one that describes the description of the tactical templates of the game.

Any kind of perceived effect will be placebo unfortunately…

Thank you for your reply.

No, I already started a previous new save for first impressions about your work.

Now I started another new save but properly built for testing purposes. As soon as I finish one season, I will let you know what my thoughts are.

Thank you

Thank you for your reply.

I will be starting a brand new save today and I will share my feedback at the end of each season.

Thank you.

Thank you for your reply.

I am still a bit confused with this approach. Looking at the 13500 changes you made, the bulk of them was changing the managers attributes. Although that's commendable, putting at, more or less, the same level someone like Pep and an unknown coach doesn't strike me as realistic.

I also disagree that the match behaviour is “heavily influenced". Yes it is a factor, but if you want to tell the public that you aim for the goals you wrote then you don't have any other way other than try and do the kind of changes that Dave does or change the match engine. This is basically changing the margins.

Even considering my scepticism, I tried and honestly I didn't see any major differences. It doesn't affect the core of the experience. I will continue to use it and report back, but first impressions (almost 20 games in) and the game still feels the same.

Thank you so much for your replies and for taking the time to do it.

I have a further technical question, if you don’t mind. Considering you are not changing the match engine, what kind of coding approach did you take to make sure you can get the results you aim such as defensive intelligence, tactical realism, fewer reckless pressures and so on? 
 

Thank you

This is an interesting addition to the field.

What kind of testing have you made? What kind of evidence can you provide that shows that this mod works as intended?

How this one compares to Dave’s work? What are the major differences?

Thank you

Spot the differences… On the left, Footyshoe's ball pack shared on Patreon… on the right BabyYaga's pack… You can download BabyYaga's pack yourself, since it is for free, and open this screenshot and do the comparison yourself. I also attach Footyshoe's 

Not sure about the second one, “EPL Match Balls”, but the other two definitely.

The most recent download, which is benithemaker's boot kit, coincidentally this Footyshoe released today, in his Patreon, also a boot pack that includes some of Beni's work.

Regarding the kits and so on, I don't have the time to double check each Patreon release.

The truth is that this person is profiting from other's creators work. He shouldn't be allowed to post here, on FM Base, or on Patreon.

The Ball pack this person published yesterday is a copy paste of BabyYaga's work, including the same list of balls. It is insane. He's selling access to his Patreon and lying to people, asking for money and sharing other's creators content without their permission or, in the above case, even saying it is his original work when it isn't.

With all due respect but I think honesty should be at the forefront of this efforts especially when the work is behind a paywall.

You said “try v2 that I created”. That's not true. The v2 you are sharing behind a paywall is copy paste from work being done by the Korean community. The files are the same, the structure is the same, the lines of code are the same. In another words, you are using someone's work and sharing it as your own while charging for it.

This is very interesting. Which files were changed, what kind of testing was made and what is the philosophy behind the changes?

Thank you

The two files being changed have no impact whatsoever. Unfortunate but you will see no differences.

Just to let you know that your mod appears on FM Scout but under a different username. Letting you know in case someone is sharing your mod without your permission…

Interesting, do you know what the styles.xml file does?