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DazS8
Agreed I know its of our own making, as I said we buy from abroad when we need not do so.
Surely keeping more manufacturing here has got to be good for our economy.
I am no politician of course nor am I the most intelligent but come on, too much relying on others when we surly could do some of it ourselves.....or am I wrong?
Shola
How dare you!
The UK Govt, has done everything possible to save steel. They've even allowed buyers to walk away from the pension scheme. If that's not a victory for the workers, then I don't know what is.
Ninja
I really don't know the answer. It's complicated. And if you spent most of your life as a steel worker you probably know more about it this than me, so forgive me if my comments aren't very insightful. But the problem with our industry is that we need it to employ people, pay people, house people, feed people etc... etc... which means when it comes to manufacturing something like steel or other raw materials it makes it really expensive compared to parts of the world where they pay people substantially less like China.
So yeah, while we could introduce protectionism and pay people really well to make steel for domestic uses (providing we can afford that as a country) in order for the steel industry to boom and provide a substantial amount of jobs we need to export too, and as soon as we export then we're competing against places like China which then puts a squeeze on wages and jobs as the companies try and cut costs to be competitive.
The best thing we could do would be to join a large, rich, trading block that agrees to buy our exports and not import from outside of that block. But we just voted to leave a block that could do that largely on the back of votes from people who benefit the most out of it so what do I know?
Number 1
Generally I agree with more than I don't, but he seems to be stuck between firefighting media and Blairites trying to destroy him, and hope people will listen to a more nuanced position in a time when it feel like it no longer exists.
Shola
Either he's inept and will be ineffective to in an election. Or he is a politician who has kept out of it to not alianate himself from the working class - which isn't going to work when you're seen as the alternative to the elite.
Grimnir
This, this, a thousand times this!
Franck
People on the hard left like him almost universally hate the EU, they just do it for different reasons and with a different rhetoric than the likes of UKIP.
Ninja
I don't think so. I think Corbyn is the dictionary definition of a reluctant remainer. Someone that dislikes what the EU has become but recognises its importance. Of all the arguments advanced by the leaders of political parties his comes closest to how I feel myself.
But its just not a vote winner is it? And its, understandably, a message thats failed to get heard over the amount of crap everyone else came out with.
I also don't think he's got anywhere near the political nous to play both sides like being suggested which is probably not a great indication for his future prospect as Labour leader. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll be devastated we left, but I do genuinely think he wanted us to stay.
Shola
I genuinely think Labour is done in England, gone the way of the Lib Dems. I think there will be scepticism of a left-wing candidate, and it's clear a 'Blairite' candidate won't get popular support. I fear we're all Tory's now if we like it or not, and the split will be between the Ruth Davidson's of this world and the Boris' and the Farage's
Ninja
I agree with you mostly, and I sympathise. I just don't know if I can blame Corbyn because of a bunch of Turkey's who voted for Christmas. Regardless of the campaign Labour ran, we knew what would happen post-Brexit, we knew that growing discontent in the North East was pushing people towards UKIP and we knew that the newspapers and politicians had blamed the EU for decades for problems that the EU had not caused.
We also know that, after years of being told it was the EU's fault, people reacted strongly when they were told in the three months up to the referendum that it wasn't, and that it was seen as a protest vote against the establishment. If Labour had more vociferously backed Remain I can see it having the opposite effect: 'Well fuck you, you haven't helped us for years, why should we trust you now'. Besides, Corbyn actually led an active campaign and mostly said the right things (stupid immigration comments aside), but the press (who have slaughtered him since day one) ignored him in favour of the internal Tory party divide.
Corbyn has to go. It's drastically unfair, he's a principled man with mostly sensible left wing views who's been undermined by constant infighting by a party thats refused to get behind him, and his most high profile intrusions into most peoples lives have been a result of Labour's infighting and inconsequential shit (does it really matter if he doesn't sing the anthem?) its clear that Labour will never be an electoral force under him. Corbyn's policies could have been exactly what the North East needs, but any Labour leader left of centre faces an unwinable battle against the Murdoch press (like Red Ed), its no surprise that the only elected Labour PM for 40 years moved to the centre and cozied up to Murdoch.
Labour won't get wiped out, but they're in turmoil (more because of SNP wiping them out in Scotland than UKIP though) and have a party membership ridiculously out of step with the concerns of Labour voters – for example, Hilary Benn is an excellent orator and would do well, I think, in a world of style over substance, but he's little more than a Tory wearing a red rosette and won't get the leadership nod – this will be coupled with the backlash against Westminster when we end up either still in the EU, or in a free movement EEA style deal that Conservatives favour which will see UKIP surge further still in their heartlands.
What can we do? We're in a country now where rampant xenophobia can be dressed up as 'just caring about immigration' and defended leading to people who actually have legitimate concerns about immigration unable to express their legitimate fears without being tarred with the same brush. We're in a country now where an election was won of the promise of spending £350m a week that didn't exist on the NHS and cutting immigration, only for those claims to be backtracked upon a day later and the stories of racist abuse people have suffered in the wake off Brexit because people feel empowered to do so having 'taken their country back' should chill people to the bone.
I don't think I recognise this country anymore, I don't know how it happened, but the caring, tolerant society that welcomed people and always tried to do the right thing is disappearing in front of my eyes. Maybe it had already gone and I'm only just realising it now, and it would have been equally true regardless of the outcome of the vote. Fuck knows.
Anyway, this turned into an unrelated rant that has nothing to do with what I originally wanted to say or talk about and I don't expect anyone to agree with me but whatever, I needed to get it off my chest.
Sam
Half the shadow cabinet is expected to resign too, the shadow health secretary resigned about 30 mins ago, she tried to get Corbyn to blame the junior doctors, so she can fuck off too.
This is obviously going to heap even more pressure on Corbyn, I know he should have done more throughout the referendum but I'm very much pro-Corbyn and I really hope he doesn't resign.
The more Blairites leaving Labour the better.
Franck
Sam
VP.
DB
Sam
Sturgeon has said she might ask the Scottish parliament to veto the UK leaving the EU, which they have the power to do.
Well, our country is pretty fucked.
Grimnir
I honestly don't see us leaving the EU disappointingly, the whole referendum seems to have just been a political coup to remove the major party leaders. Boris won't do it if he gets in, nor Gove.
It's a shame, because if the choice then becomes a UKIP government headed by Farage but we get to leave the EU or someone else but we remain then I'd have to vote remain. I can't see how the other parties can elect someone more vile than Farage and I could never vote for UKIP.
What a farce. We actually have a chance to do the right thing, the country even turns out to vote, but in the end none of it matters because it was all party politics.
Should have been obvious from the start I suppose as Boris was always going to set himself up against Cameron whichever option that meant "supporting". Shame Corbyn couldn't have been allowed to show his true colours and support the leave campaign, then we wouldn't have all been branded racists! Would have taken the bloody limelight of Farage too and allowed for a proper debate.
VP.
I've not seen anything that says they have?
Shola
tbh don't reckon article 50 is going to be triggered.
Sam
Page 21, Section 70.
"We asked Sir David whether he thought the Scottish Parliament would have to give its consent to measures extinguishing the application of EU law in Scotland. He noted that such measures would entail amendment of section 29 of the Scotland Act 1998, which binds the Scottish Parliament to act in a manner compatible with EU law, and he therefore believed that the Scottish Parliament’s consent would be required. He could envisage certain political advantages being drawn from not giving consent."
Ninja
In fairness to Cameron, I think he's played an absolute blinder on this front.
Shola
Sick of the Guardian though - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/david-cameron-resign-teflon-cockiness - feels like they write the articles first.
Ninja
Good job it was all scaremongering.
King Luis
If it's by ministers however he is fucked by the looks of things.
Franck
Sadly it's far from an isolated incident, http://buff.ly/298jfWc
Hopefully the spate of racist incidents being reported in the media are just a knee jerk reaction to Brexit, but it just feels as if the right is on the rise not just in the UK but Europe as a whole.
Number 1
Just an average day in British politics, clearly... when will it end?
Sam
Now we're going to have Theresa May as our PM, who will be like Thatcher x10.