PaddoFM15
5 years ago
1 month ago
6
Dear moderators,

I am trying to understand why some records I recently submitted have been rejected 🙂

Am I doing something wrong when submitting them? Are there any guidelines available?
For example, I had a record-breaking period when managing Juventus in Serie A and reached 58 consecutive wins, but the record I submitted has been rejected (twice 🙂): https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3209

Is there any way to learn the reason?

Thanks!
mons
14 years ago
12 minutes ago
33,610
Dear moderators,

I am trying to understand why some records I recently submitted have been rejected 🙂

Am I doing something wrong when submitting them? Are there any guidelines available?
For example, I had a record-breaking period when managing Juventus in Serie A and reached 58 consecutive wins, but the record I submitted has been rejected (twice 🙂): https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3209

Is there any way to learn the reason?

Thanks!

There's a functionality to the record section which is still being worked on which would allow staff members to give reasons as to why a particular record submission is being rejected. Since it isn't in place yet, I couldn't tell you in either instance that I do no consider it realistic that you went 30 consecutive games without conceding nor winning 58 games in a row.

There isn't much point in having a record section which accepts submissions which are clearly not achieved legitimately. You can edit the database, take control of the opposition or do anything you want, it's your game after all - who am I to argue? But if you're going to submit such records, then be prepared for them to be rejected.
PaddoFM15
5 years ago
1 month ago
6
Well, I understand your point and agree that is not realistic, but it is FM.
As I wrote as a comment in another record (the only one that has been accepted so far), I played FM2015 until few months ago, until I was forced to abandon it due to a database error that prevented me to continue (after 190+ seasons). The first thing I noticed after start playing FM2020 is that it is way easier to master the tactics (they did an excellent job with the tactic creation) and, once you do that, to get long series of good results.
Related to the 30 consecutive games without conceding: in FM 2015 it was impossible for me to beat 13-15 matches (I happened once, maybe). In FM2020 I do it regularly.

Then regarding the legitimacy... well, there is no meanings in beating a record by cheating. And it makes no sense to play a FM game cheating (of course I am not talking about the occasional reload after your first division team loses with a 5th division team after 10 posts, 3 penalties missed and 100 shots at 1 - I do it sometimes :/).
You can see from my screenshot that I do have the FM editor, that's not a secret. But using it as you suggest make no sense at all.

You say "There isn't much point in having a record section which accepts submissions which are clearly not achieved legitimately.". Totally agree, but then the question to me becomes: there isn't much point in having a record section at all, if legitimacy is judged on personal intuition or suspect. Let's ask the savegame together with the screenshot then. Mine is available 🙂
mons
14 years ago
12 minutes ago
33,610
Well, I understand your point and agree that is not realistic, but it is FM.
As I wrote as a comment in another record (the only one that has been accepted so far), I played FM2015 until few months ago, until I was forced to abandon it due to a database error that prevented me to continue (after 190+ seasons). The first thing I noticed after start playing FM2020 is that it is way easier to master the tactics (they did an excellent job with the tactic creation) and, once you do that, to get long series of good results.
Related to the 30 consecutive games without conceding: in FM 2015 it was impossible for me to beat 13-15 matches (I happened once, maybe). In FM2020 I do it regularly.

Then regarding the legitimacy... well, there is no meanings in beating a record by cheating. And it makes no sense to play a FM game cheating (of course I am not talking about the occasional reload after your first division team loses with a 5th division team after 10 posts, 3 penalties missed and 100 shots at 1 - I do it sometimes :/).
You can see from my screenshot that I do have the FM editor, that's not a secret. But using it as you suggest make no sense at all.

You say "There isn't much point in having a record section which accepts submissions which are clearly not achieved legitimately.". Totally agree, but then the question to me becomes: there isn't much point in having a record section at all, if legitimacy is judged on personal intuition or suspect. Let's ask the savegame together with the screenshot then. Mine is available 🙂

Just providing me with the savegame serves no purpose since I don't have the tools to know if a save-game editor has been used, however.

However good somebody may be at FM, winning 58 games in a row or going 30 games without conceding goes beyond personal intuition or suspicion, essentially. It's clear that something has skewed the game and so such a record will not be approved.
PaddoFM15
5 years ago
1 month ago
6
😀 this is really funny.

So 49 games won in a row is fine (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3023), but 58 it is not. 22 league games without conceding (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3067) or 30 games without conceding (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/2704) are fine, but 30 league games is not. And who sets the limit? (and hen why the steam achievement?)

If it is so, there isn't really much point in having a record section at all as I said above. Hypothetically one could re-play every single game (real fun...) until reaches 22 league games without conceding and it would be fine because 22 is more credible than 30?
Alternative suggestion: keep only the records that cannot be "faked", if any.
mons
14 years ago
12 minutes ago
33,610
😀 this is really funny.

So 49 games won in a row is fine (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3023), but 58 it is not. 22 league games without conceding (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3067) or 30 games without conceding (https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/2704) are fine, but 30 league games is not. And who sets the limit? (and hen why the steam achievement?)

If it is so, there isn't really much point in having a record section at all as I said above. Hypothetically one could re-play every single game (real fun...) until reaches 22 league games without conceding and it would be fine because 22 is more credible than 30?
Alternative suggestion: keep only the records that cannot be "faked", if any.

Alternative suggestion: don't submit records which are clearly impossible to achieve without resorting to shenanigans.

P.S. Not sure if it was me who approved the latter 2, but I've now rejected them on the same basis as your submissions.
kingrobbo
11 years ago
4 hours ago
8,056
Alternative suggestion: don't submit records which are clearly impossible to achieve without resorting to shenanigans.

P.S. Not sure if it was me who approved the latter 2, but I've now rejected them on the same basis as your submissions.


word of the day there mate😁

I cant get my head around the need for posting this stuff if I'm honest its never interested me, and it can be abused as you suggest, not just by editing the DB,one of the obvious ways is using a ''game breaking tactic'' which you can can just plug+play and rack up the wins etc
PaddoFM15
5 years ago
1 month ago
6
Even more funny! 😀 😀

Ok, unfortunately I have no means of proving you that my records are valid (same way you do not have means to prove that they are not), so I will simply give up submitting them. Please also reject this one (that is mine): https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3192, since it was achieved during the 30 matches without conceding that has been rejected.
Feel also free to give a look at my FM15 records, for example https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/1583, https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/2262, https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3032. Based on your philosophy, it is clear that they are impossible to achieve (though I really achieved them, but whatever!).

As a final note, I really like this record-thing and I understand that there is no way to prove or disprove without any doubt if a record is legitimate or not. I also appreciate your dedication and severe approach to the thing, but in this way everything becomes kind of arbitrary and based on personal ideas of what is possible in the game and what is not. From a pure statistical point of view, everything is basically possible: it is just a matter of how long you play! I can tell you that in my previous 190+ season save I have seen many rare events and sequences 🙂
mons
14 years ago
12 minutes ago
33,610
Even more funny! 😀 😀

Ok, unfortunately I have no means of proving you that my records are valid (same way you do not have means to prove that they are not), so I will simply give up submitting them. Please also reject this one (that is mine): https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3192, since it was achieved during the 30 matches without conceding that has been rejected.
Feel also free to give a look at my FM15 records, for example https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/1583, https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/2262, https://sortitoutsi.net/records/submission/3032. Based on your philosophy, it is clear that they are impossible to achieve (though I really achieved them, but whatever!).

As a final note, I really like this record-thing and I understand that there is no way to prove or disprove without any doubt if a record is legitimate or not. I also appreciate your dedication and severe approach to the thing, but in this way everything becomes kind of arbitrary and based on personal ideas of what is possible in the game and what is not. From a pure statistical point of view, everything is basically possible: it is just a matter of how long you play! I can tell you that in my previous 190+ season save I have seen many rare events and sequences 🙂

I'm willing to give some leeway when records are submitted, but yours are as far away from suspension of disbelief as it is possible to go. They may well be genuine, but on the balance of probability, I believe they aren't.

I'm closing this thread now as this discussion has run its course.

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