King Luis
17 years ago
1 month ago
3,111
I kind of think the sin bin would be a good thing for Football, its a much more tangible punishment than a yellow card as alot of players will take yellow cards in alot of situation without even thinking twice about it. Like Slashman says how often do you see counter attacks stopped by a professional foul, in that case a yellow card is barely any sort of punishment
Franck
17 years ago
2 days ago
4,255
As a big hockey fan (the sport where the concept originates from) I think penalties in football would be a terrible idea.

It's a perfect way of dealing with infractions in hockey because it is a very quick game played in a small and very cramped space, so the game gets tilted heavily in favour of the numerically advantaged team after a penalty because they get the time and space that come at a premium during regular play, leading to many more scoring opportunities and goals, while severely limiting the scoring opportunities of the penalised team. Basically it is both an effective form of punishment and something that raises the entertainment value of a game.

Football is an entirely different type of game, much slower, much more tactical and with far more space. Playing 11 against 10 won't make that much of a difference for the advantaged team while the team that is down a man will just park the bus, waste as much time as possible and do everything they can to slow the game down to a standstill until the penalised player is back, and once a game breaks down like that it almost never recovers. It would completely destroy the flow of the game and send the entertainment value down the gutter.
Dutton
17 years ago
1 month ago
1,101
Moyes took off Rafael and put Tony at right back, despite the obvious fact being he isn't a right back, and we conceded a goal from the right back position.

Now I'm still supporting Moyes, but he needs to improve things. We can't really say 'he needs time like Fergie did' because Moyes inherited a league winning side, and plenty of other new managers haven't needed 'time'.

Of course it didn't help that Moyes was pretty much unsupported in the transfer market, then again he turned down Ozil and spent £27M on Fellaini so he has to take some of the blame.


Against Southampton he took Rooney off for Smalling with 3 minutes to go and because we conceded late he got battered for it. He does the opposite and again people moan, he can't win sometimes, at least he was going for the win.

I agree I'd like to see results improve, but it's obvious Fergie got the best out of some average players and Van Persie has not been able to recapture his form from last season because of injuries and whatever and he drove us to the title last year. Replacing Ferguson at United is much bigger than replacing Mancini, Benitez etc.

This Ozil thing is stupid, people are already moaning that SUPERKINGKAGAWA who can do no wrong, doesn't play as a 10 every single game because we have one of the best players in the league playing in that position. Ozil can't play in a midfield 2, he would be wasted. This bollocks about "not turning down such a good opportunity" and "you fit in world class players like that" doesn't apply when we're already more than well stocked in that position. We have a player who would walk into most teams in Europe (going off Dortmund form) who can't play in that position already. It's not the same as signing Van Persie either, whilst we didn't need Van Persie we could fit him into our system, Ozil we could not.

It's about as pointless as arguing we should go sign Neuer if he came available.

Also whilst I believe we overpaid for Fellaini and he hasn't done much good yet (although he played well against Everton) imagine if he hadn't have paid the extra and brought him in? People would've been WELL on his back. "WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST PAY THE EXTRA FEW MILLION MOYES WE ARE MAN UNITED, WE NEED A MIDFIELDER BADLY." "LOOK NOW CARRICK IS INJURED WE SHOULD'VE JUST PAID THE EXTRA FEW MILLION," etc. He'd be under even more pressure now for not buying anyone.
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
Spot on. Regarding Fellaini it's also worth pointing out that he is playing with an injury.
Shola
15 years ago
5 years ago
2,708
I saw an article in the summer using stats that basically said Spurs and Manchester United were in potentially big trouble over the season as they both massively overachieved. http://www.forbes.com/sites/zachslaton/2013/09/30/manchester-united-or-tottenham-hotspur-who-is-more-likely-to-be-the-newcastle-united-of-201314/ I don't really understand all of it tbh. But is basically is saying that Manchester United massively overachieved last year, and were always going to struggle this year unless something changed. Also from a neutral perspective, I wouldn't say Moyes is doing any worse than Mourinho or Pellegrini considering he has a much, much bigger challenge.

“The stuff Manchester United were doing offensively under Alex Ferguson was analytically unique across the entirety of Europe. The vast majority of teams rely on shooting the ball as much as possible while trying to make the opponent shoot as little as possible…. United, on the other hand, [were] analytically inexplicable. I’ve walked through almost every predictive model I can find, and the closest anyone [could] get them is fourth. That’s Alex Ferguson. Fergie was one of the most innovative, adaptive, and genius tacticians football has ever seen…


Kagawa has made 10 starts and hasn't scored a goal or got an assist. Maybe Moyes has his reasons.
Dutton
17 years ago
1 month ago
1,101
The bumming over Kagawa is annoying, if he genuinely was world class (like so many seem to think) then he would be able to play pretty decently on the left as well. Other number 10's do it. The idea that we should move everyone around just to accommodate him (when lets be honest, he's never reached world class when played as a number 10 for us) is stupid.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
The bumming over Kagawa is annoying, if he genuinely was world class (like so many seem to think) then he would be able to play pretty decently on the left as well. Other number 10's do it. The idea that we should move everyone around just to accommodate him (when lets be honest, he's never reached world class when played as a number 10 for us) is stupid.


How many games has he played a genuine 10?

I'd be surprised if it was much more than 9 or 10, maybe as many as 20 if you include all the cup games as well.

I think the reason people like him is because he oozes technical ability and looks, unlike Rooney more often than not, to be capable of actually being able to bring players in from there.

I really would like us to see us at least try a formation where we get Nani, Januzaj and Kagawa all on the pitch at the same time. Lord knows it currently isn't working.
VP.
13 years ago
1 week ago
25,271
We play with 3 natural central attacking players behind the one striker because of Podolski's and Walcott/Chamberlain's injuries and it works fine for us. Just because a player starts left wing (for example) it certainly doesn't mean he has to strictly stay there all game, look at how our 3 plus Giroud inter-change positions. That type of play can only be perfected on the training ground and that's where Moyes comes in and imo, he is clearly failing the team.

I also do not see how you simply didn't/don't need a player of Ozil's quality?
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
It was literally just explained.
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
Ozil is better than all of those players though. He's better than Rooney and Kagawa as a number 10.
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
But why waste £40 million on a position we're well stocked in, when we're in need of players in other positions?
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
We play with 3 natural central attacking players behind the one striker because of Podolski's and Walcott/Chamberlain's injuries and it works fine for us. Just because a player starts left wing (for example) it certainly doesn't mean he has to strictly stay there all game, look at how our 3 plus Giroud inter-change positions. That type of play can only be perfected on the training ground and that's where Moyes comes in and imo, he is clearly failing the team.

I also do not see how you simply didn't/don't need a player of Ozil's quality?


We've literally never ever played football in that way, and we're clearly still intent on playing with genuine width, simply not something you can introduce easily mid season. Kagawa out their is a square peg in a round hole.

And for all the Ozil chat, I don't really think he'd have improved us. A better player than Rooney or Kagawa at 10 no doubt, but I'm almost certain we would have failed to get the best out of him.

I think we really struggle carrying a creative 10 because the midfield just doesn't give that player the platform they need.
Poe
17 years ago
2 weeks ago
3,675
I genuinely think the midfield of Carrick and Fellaini is better than Ramsey and Wilshere/Flamini though.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
I genuinely think the midfield of Carrick and Fellaini is better than Ramsey and Wilshere/Flamini though.


On what metric? Because it's certainly not based on anything we've seen this season.
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
You might have been able to argue that before the start of the season, but not at the moment.
VP.
13 years ago
1 week ago
25,271
Fellaini's best position at Everton for me was as an AM/TM. Everton pretty much based there whole game around him and his strengths, that's not gonna happen at Utd and is why (for me anyway) it was such a strange transfer to make. Your never gonna get the best out of him as a central midfielder, he may have the odd good game but will never repeat his Everton form imo.
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
Fellaini's best position at Everton for me was as an AM/TM. Everton pretty much based there whole game around him and his strengths, that's not gonna happen at Utd and is why (for me anyway) it was such a strange transfer to make. Your never gonna get the best out of him as a central midfielder, he may have the odd good game but will never repeat his Everton form imo.


I think thats a slight re-writing of history. It was only last season when he ended up there, he'd been earning plaudits deeper for a lot, lot longer than that.

My biggest problem with him is that he's 6ft + but looks like he's afraid of throwing his body around, maybe thats the injury, but he's really not good enough technically to get a game for us if he's not going to use his physical attributes.

Disappointing signing all things told, hopefully Moyes remembers he's allowed to buy players outside of Merseyside in the January window.
Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092
I appreciate Moyes went attacking against Everton, but the subs were ineffective yet again. Being attacking is one thing, taking off our right back and putting a winger there for another thirty minutes is a poor decision. Why we've renewed Nani for another five years is bewildering, we could have got £12-15M for him and bought someone much better.

We can easily say Moyes needs time, and that it's hard to replace Fergie. Of course it's hard, but we can't be making this excuse forever, improvements are needed. We've been incredibly average so far this season, with only a few glimpses of how good we could be, our gameplay has been the same nearly every match: dull, uninspired, desperate and negative. Leverkusen has been our best performance so far, the right formation, the right lineup and the right style of play. Then we played 4-4-2 at home. Ridiculous. His comment after Wednesday's result "That's the way it goes" was pathetic.

We shouldn't be THIS bad, obviously I wasn't expecting us to be walking the league straight away, but I expected better than this. The results have been bad, I was expecting bad results from time to time, but the performances have been woeful. But, as I've said many times, Moyes still has my support of course. Hopefully soon he'll have us playing the right way.

Kagawa should be doing better, he's played on the left wing many times for Japan, and he's even acknowledged himself he's fine with playing on the left wing. He has been great at times though, just needs consistency.

I personally think we could have fit Ozil in somehow, especially if we got rid of Nani and Young, he clearly would have strengthened our midfield. Look at what he's done at Arsenal, his presence has clearly helped Ramsey improve too. We could have easily got someone world class, but we wasted our time with Cesc, overspent on Fellaini and left it too late for Herrera. Obviously injuries haven't helped of course.

The transfer window was embarrassing. Fellaini hasn't improved enough yet, he needs to get better quickly. £27M and he's done fuck all good.
Slashman X
17 years ago
4 months ago
6,000
Premium
Was convinced there that Ninja said Kagawa was being praised cos he has looks \o/
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
Was convinced there that Ninja said Kagawa was being praised cos he has looks \o/




I think it's just Arsenal fans that actually get hard for their players.
K3V0
15 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
Any news on the lineup for tonight?
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
RvP apparently starts.
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
Not sure if confirmed:

De Gea, Rafael, Evans, Vidic, Evra, Nani, Jones, Cleverley, Januzaj, Hernandez, van Persie.
Number 1
16 years ago
10 months ago
3,650
NUFC: Krul - Debuchy, Williamson, Coloccini, Santon - Cabaye, Tiote, Anita - Sissoko, Remy, Gouffran

4-4-2 v 4-3-3 then...
Ninja
14 years ago
6 years ago
5,341
I'm fully expecting us to lose, so any positive result will be a nice surprise.
K3V0
15 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
Not sure if confirmed:

De Gea, Rafael, Evans, Vidic, Evra, Nani, Jones, Cleverley, Januzaj, Hernandez, van Persie.


Spot on according to Fox Sports, cheers pal.
K3V0
15 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
I'm fully expecting us to lose, so any positive result will be a nice surprise.


I expect Newcastle to be well up for it and we've got to get off to a good start to win this one.
tmatthew
17 years ago
4 months ago
771
No Fellaini at all and Zaha on the bench.
Sam
17 years ago
1 year ago
5,092
I'm fully expecting us to lose, so any positive result will be a nice surprise.


Ditto.
K3V0
15 years ago
1 year ago
5,966
We'll win 4-0.

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