Tactical Advice (4-2-3-1)

Hi, I want to build a tactic for bigger teams with good, technical skills all over the pitch.
For that I chose Chelsea who have the material for a 4-2-3-1 formation, I've played a lot with Chelsea and haven't won anything
yet so I felt it's time to make my own tactic.

My idea is:
- Control (quite attacking
- Slow and patient passing tempo
- Keeping the shape (but use a lot of width

So here is my setup so far:



GK:

D(R)

D(CR)

D(CL)

D(L)

M(CR)

M(CL)

AM(R)

AM(C)

AM(L)

ST(C)


I would like some help, tips and ideas how to make it work even better.
Tell me what you think!

Cheers

Good opening post, I'm interested to see how this does as the 4-2-3-1 can be very tricky to master on FM14.

Yes, I haven't been able to make it work at all
But on the other side the match engine fails "big time" after the 14.3.1 update.
Players are all over the pitch and doesn't do anything you tell them to, no matter what formation, mentality or fluidity I use.

I wouldn't say its failed big time but it's definitely flawed.

Well, it's time for pre-season. First game on the way!

The game is obviously completely destroyed after the patch, how is it possible to put 8 men (7 plus gk) in a straight line in the 6y box on the corners by the computer?!?
You'll make no goals on corner kicks, that's for sure but the computer is pouring in goals on corners no matter how you set up the defense on set pieces...
Almost given up before I've even started develop the tactic.

My thoughts: I much prefer the defensive mentality over the others, the players are more responsible and pick their opportunities better while also being eager to launch rapid counter attacks.

I also find that the complete wing back role is the only one that really "works". Your fullbacks will be caught out at times, but the forward runs, the overlaps and the crosses that you'll get from it will really pay off and definitely make up for the odd conceded goal.

Having wingers play their "off" wing has never really worked for me on this patch either, left-footed players playing the left side seem to finish better than right-footed players (and vice versa). I'd look into trying Hazard in the middle and trying Salah on the left.

Poachers are useless, this match engine doesn't favour the 1-on-1 type of chances, and that's the only thing a poacher will really contribute. You should try a different role that offers more to the general play, like a false nine or a complete forward. I've gotten my biggest goalscoring success in this version from playing Benteke as a complete forward, him and Lukaku are very similar players so you should try him in that role when you get him back from his loan.

The false 9 is a great role on FM14. I agree with your points about the poacher too.

Thanx for your input, pre-season is over with some pathetic results against weeker teams and didn't score many goals but had great possession and stable at the back which pleased me alot.

Here are the results and the new setup/formation:



I still use poacher and the first game at home of the season against West Ham, Costa scored a hattrick in 11 minutes Good stuff!
I will evaluate the striker role more closly the coming games and get back after like 6 games or so.

What bothers me is that no matter how you set up the defense, low, very low, high or very high, the defenders standing still, backs off and waits for a through ball and then the opponent score a goal. It does not matter if you have "hazzle" or "stand off opponents", "tight marking" or not. Then I'm very impressed with ALL super goalies who moves from post to post and saves cannon shots, ridiculous. Even if you play against a team that played a lot of games and are tired, down to 60% in the health / fitness the team dominates you, and running as they went on speed...wtf?

Back to the tactic, as you said above the striker starts to struggle, invisible and doesn't do anything right atm.

Should I keep the player instructions from poacher and try either "complete forward" or "false nine"? or leave it without any specific settings?

Btw, I have Diego Costa up front as my first choice, Lukaku as second and Torres as a backup.

Just a few observations. First and foremost, I notice that you're utilising both a DLP and a Trequartista. In the previous match engine, your DLP in this setup would have been the team's designated playmaker by default (unless you selected someone else manually), while the Trequartista would continuously look to move into space. In contrast, on FM 14 and presumably onwards, having two (or more) playmakers means that the role is essentially divided. Not strictly equal in your case since one of your playmakers is at AMC and the DLP contributes to the build-up of your moves by virtue of having a deeper position, but it's still worth considering that there are numerous occasions over the course of a match where your team will choose to look to your Trequartista rather than your DLP when recycling a move and probing for space. Not sure if this bothers you or not, but I for one would usually prefer my team to always look for my DLP at MC to dictate the flow of a move if I were playing with your shape and looking to utilise a patient passing system. I would be mindful of the fact that the Trequartista would have much less time on the ball, as well as less passing options available to him than the DLP[D]. Of course, if I was looking to utilise a more "positive" passing game geared towards probing the final third as soon as possible and to get it to the man behind the striker as soon as an opportunity to do arises, I'd keep the Trequartista (and even consider changing the DLP's role). It's your call. You might even be happy enough with the best of both worlds scenario that you currently enjoy.

Another thing I couldn't help noticing is the potential conflicts (even if they're minor ones) in your passing instruction and the team's tempo, namely Retain Possession vs Shorter Passing and Lower Tempo. The instruction of Retain Possession sets your player's passing to extremely short and the tempo low. In contrast, Shorter Passing sets passing to short, but not as short as it would be if Retain Possession were the active instruction, same goes for Lower Tempo. Of course, there is no way of being 100% certain as to which instructions prevail when this conflict arises since the sliders are gone and we have been given no other point of reference to identify such things with, but I am 90% certain that Retain Possession is rendered useless and effectively overwritten by Shorter Passing & Lower Tempo in your current setup. Just another thing you may wish to take into consideration if you are looking to hog possession as much as possible.

Similarly, you have Stand Off Opponents issued as a team instruction, yet you have taken the time to issue the personal instruction of Close Down Less to your players. Again, there is no way of stating as a fact which instructions gets priority in this conflict without the reference point, but I am pretty certain that the PI "wins". Without those PIs, the closing down level level/invisible slider slide setting for your players would be 1. With these Close Down Less PIs active, however, Stand Off Opponents is almost certainly ignored as far as its closing down influence is concerned and players will instead close down "less", whatever less actually is (probably = to the dynamic slider setting of Stand Off More from the global Closing Down TC setting in the previous tactics system).

Last but not least, it might be awkward to have your team pushing high up in the pitch with Control & Push Higher Up, yet they are then discouraged from harassing the opposition in an attempt to get the ball back. The potential issue here is that by allowing your opposition this extra time on the ball, they are much better poised to exploit the chasms of space that you are leaving when attacking, especially when you are using a shape as gung-ho as the "4-2-3-1 Denmark", which is for all intents and purposes a 4-2-4 on FM. Not only can this severely compromise you defensively, but it may also go against the type of philosophy which you might be trying to adopt. After all, the best possession orientated systems in real life are those which apply relentless pressure off the ball - I am a firm believer that the match engine has always reflected this, possibly even to the point of favouring it a bit too much in some versions of the game.

Hope at least some of that is helpful.

Thanx for your input!

So how would you change/setup my 4-2-3-1?

As far as I know you can't do anything about the corners, the opponents ALWAYS put 5-6 player in line on the sixyard box and this makes it IMPOSSIBLE to score on corners! Bug?

Some other stuff i noticed is that if you take the lead then the opponents always counter and equalise within exact three minutes, and I mean ALWAYS. I haven't been able to keep a clean sheet for a long while now and it's starting to pissing me off.

You're welcome. Sorry if I was a bit verbose and not vivid enough. Most of the confusion and disillusionment this year seems to be due to the game's poor GUI and the oversight of not providing alternative reference points to the sliders. People really shouldn't have to dig around in order to find out what exactly their players are doing/are not doing and why. Things I would change/review:

DLP & Trequartista, or DLP & Attacking Midfielder. If you want your DLP to see as much of the ball as possible, then I would recommend changing the AMC's role to Attacking Midfielder in order to minimise those instances where the team seeks out the AMC playmaker instead of the preferred creating outlet, who has every attacking player ahead of him at MC. Of course, if you are happy with how much of the ball the DLP currently sees and you don't mind having that dynamic element to your attack where players decide for themselves whether to look to the DLP or the Trequartista in order to dictate the point of attack for the move, then by all means leave their roles alone.

Review your team's closing down, especially if the situation is as drastic as you describe with equalisers being so swift and common. Of course, the vast majority of teams initially set themselves up defensively against you due to Chelsea's reputation. Alas, when you score, obviously they no longer have anything to lose by being more attacking - and clearly they are finding it a little easy to get a goal back, a much easier time than they should be having against a team of your stature from the sound of it. I would highly recommend removing the Stand Off Opponents and Stay On Feet TIs and the Close Down Less PIs. Replace them with either Close Down More PIs, OR the Hassle Opposition TI (personally, I would prefer Hassle Opposition & possible leaving the DLP his Closing Down Less PI, but nobody else). What this should do is give your defensive phases more balance. The "4-2-3-1 Denmark", by virtue of how attacking it is, is a shape that cries out for pressing high up the pitch and relentlessly pursuing the ball. Your current closing down and tackling instructions would be much more suited to perhaps a containing or counter-attacking system in another shape. With a 4-2-3-1 ["4-2-4"], though? Not so much. If you do decide to take the Close Down More PIs approach, you may want to consider giving the AMC the PI of Tight Marking. Without that, it could lead to opposing formations with a creative DMC having more success through the middle of the park than you would like them to. It depends on what you prefer. If you want your AMC to be less concerned about his defensive responsibilities and to focus more on his attacking positioning for when you recover possession (no thanks to him!), then don't bother reigning him in. If you take the Hassle Opposition TI approach, the AMC's marking is set to tight by default.

Finally, I would remove Shorter Passing & Lower Tempo, leaving Retain Possession as the active team instruction. Again, only do this if you want to place maximum emphasis on keeping the ball and methodically probing with it. If you don't like the idea of recycling possession and playing a fair amount of lateral passes until space opens up, then keep things as they are/remove Retain Possession and place the slightly stronger emphasis on forward passes.

Are you happy with the team's high level of creative freedom, by the way? It is probably safe to presume that Be More Expressive is the same as the global TC instruction of More Expressive in the previous tactics system. In a Balanced philosophy, the More Expressive setting used to give creative freedom values of 16+ to all attacking players, so that's probably what still happens, even if "under the bonnet". Perhaps you are happy to allow this much freedom of expression on the ball when you have such quality attacking players in your team.

Corner kicks have been a joke even as far back as the CM days. I would highly recommend simply using the default corner kick routine. It's boring and bland, but your CBs will get goals from it and your team should score more from corners than you concede over the course of a season. On FM14, my corner kick goals to games ratio has been around 1 in 4 in all of my saves - I have only used default. If you want to get goals aplenty from corner kicks, there are usually plenty of exploits out there which guarantee this if that interests you. If you just want your fair return of goals from this set piece and aren't interested in match engine exploits though, just stick with the default routine.

This was absolutely fantastic to read, and I thought the days of helping people had passed on the forum scene, so much is mis- interpreted in the instructions and the match engine as a whole, but in the same respect why should you have to dig deep to find out what does what, I was happy to see the sliders go, but still think their should be some kind of visual for this effect.

Cheers.

Likewise, I was happy to see the back of the sliders, yet disappointed that they didn't bother introducing some sort of visual point of reference. From what I've seen, the consequence of this has been more ambiguity and perpetuating of myths than ever before. To complicate things further, the touchline instructions are now treated more as a "plug-and-play" device, despite the fact they were originally intended as a means for the manager to make dynamic changes over the course of a match.

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