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#5276 The Night Thread Mk. IX
Ninja
#5271 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
Hardly, AVB's pre-match press conference was pretty much a word for word re-iteration of that.
#5268 The Night Thread Mk. IX
Ninja
All on you.
#5264 The Night Thread Mk. IX
Ninja
#5254 The Night Thread Mk. IX
Ninja
I just don't believe he'll go through with it.
#5196 The England National Team
Ninja
'Is Rio in the squad?' 'No'
As you say, he's not been in the squad recently and I don't think it's a surprise that he's not now. But if he did go on to say:
'I have to say it is over for him and England. It has got to be the end of the road.'
Without first talking to Rio and telling him that, I think that's very unprofessional, and that's why Hodgson has tried hard to distance himself from that part of the comments.
#5138 Old Trafford Lounge
Ninja
I don't agree.
I think Gerrard is a player who is capable of playing great passes rather than a great passer.
To be fair the bolded is the exact argument made for Beckham a while back, and I don't think many people would argue he was missed when he did eventually stop being picked for England.
I'm not saying he currently shouldn't be in the squad, and I probably would have him over the other older players such as Ferdinand and Lampard purely to act as an experienced head as the squad is effectively handed over from his generation to the next, but I don't really think he's going to be a player playing in to his later 30s and I don't think he's going to be doing that for England.
#5103 Old Trafford Lounge
Ninja
I find it hard to accept the argument that any of the other candidates for that Centre Back slot are better than Ferdinand to the point that he would be a squad player if he came back. I think he's been consistently the best English centre-back around the past year and he's played a lot of football too.
In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Ferdinand has played more football than Gerrard in the past year and a half.
I really don't care if he's in the England team or not, I'd prefer it if he wasn't because it will benefit us, but I think it's bizarre that really average Premiership footballers like Shawcross (who, let's face it, will be out of the team as soon as Jones and Smalling are fit) are being picked over a guy who has a wealth of international experience and is in really good form (well, aside from getting violated by Bale at the weekend).
As for Gerrard, I really think he's going to be affected by his declining physical prowess in the next few years. He was never a great passer of the ball, even if he bizarrely compares himself to Paul Scholes, but he was a world class player because of his drive, his ability to drag a team by it's shoulders kicking and screaming to some kind of improvement and his impact at both ends of the pitch. I don't think he'll be able to get around the pitch as much as he gets older, and I don't really think he's got enough technically to compensate when he can't cut it physically any more.
#5085 Old Trafford Lounge
Ninja
Rio has nothing to offer England long term, absolutely no point him being in the team.
I would, however, argue the same for Steven Gerrard who will be 34 by the next World Cup and whose form is dipping alarmingly quickly and Lampard who will be 35 or 36.
But if Hodgson is going to include both of them, then he has no argument not to include Ferdinand.
#4849 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
Yeah fair enough, I thought he was older to be fair.
Who knows, maybe after he grabs one or two he'll show himself to be a natural goal scorer but I've not really seen many glimpses of any great natural ability so far, but as you say, early days.
#4841 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
I'm not saying he's awful but, and i just googled it because you cunts didn't let me be lazy, he doesn't seem like he's got enough about him to justify spending £10m on him. Probably would have been good business at about half that.
#4830 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
#4825 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
#4823 Europa League 2012/13 - Now NOT Featuring Falcao
Ninja
#3865 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
#3332 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
But that said, we didn't deserve to win, we were awful in that first half. Giggs needs to retire before he seriously harms his reputation and I'm seriously struggling right now to see what Carrick offers to the team.
#3064 The Cricket Thread
Ninja
Craig Keiswetter is not.
#2905 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
It's because we're both too stubborn to ever admit defeat.
#2904 This Is Anfield
Ninja
I think an interesting side effect of what Rafa did is the effect it had on local talent.
Scott Wootton for example left on his 16th birthday because of a perceived lack of opportunities with all the foreign youngsters coming in and signed for us.
I don't know if anyone else has left, and I don't think Scott Wootton is going to be good enough for it to be a huge loss, but it's always interesting to look at what happened as a side effect.
#2895 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
It wasn't that long!
The font size on here just makes a paragraph look like the fucking bible in length.
#2886 The Manchester City Thread
Ninja
They say it's better to be lucky than good, and the more I see of Mancini the more I think it true of him.
#2851 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
Is reading literacy at an all time low on this forum?
No one is saying that it should have been sung, I've said it so many times that I'm physically sick of typing the phrase.
All we're saying is that it, no matter what you want to think, does not reference anything other than the self pity city myth.
I also genuinely think you're giving far too much credit to the thinking that went into signing it, I don't think there was any. I don't think anyone went there expecting to sing that song.
What almost certainly happened is that a group of fans from both sides decided to have a bit of 'banter' (but call it what you want, it's probably more sinister than banter) at the others expense knowing that the other side reacting would cause a bit of a shit storm. It started with stuff like 'Where's your famous Munich song?' the booing of Evra and plane gestures and started an inevitable and sad slide down a slippery slope that ended with this song.
No one's saying that it justifies singing a song that was always going to cause trouble, and you would hope provocation would be met by a desire to be the bigger men about it and let it slide, but we all know that football fans capacity for stupidity is not exactly compatible with standing aloof of things like this.
I think people are getting confused by people defending the song itself, with attempting to exonerate the actions of those that sung it last week.
#2842 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
No.
I'm saying it's not explicitly a reference to Hillsborough and to be offended by it because you think it is is understandable initially but after being told about 674 times what it actually references still being offended because of the original misinterpretation is stupid.
And you've just proved my point that you're ignoring what I'm actually saying. I said Hillsborough used to feed in to the myth of the self pity city that is referenced in the song, but it's not anymore. If you can't see how other factors have been more important in the development of why Liverpool fans have the reputation of being perennial victims then you are seriously in denial.
Don't get me wrong, NO ONE is saying that it should have been sung at Anfield on Saturday, because the tit for tat hatred of each other was totally unneeded on the day, but I don't see how you can be so outraged by that one incident and completely ignore the fact that your fans also did not drop the hatred and nonsense that comes with our rivalry.
It's too far to say that this holier than thou nonsense is pretty much the exact reason we sing that song, but not by much.
#2832 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
It's not a contradiction in the slightest.
I'm saying you could do it, I could see why you'd do it. But you're wrong to do it.
You can interpret it however you want, it doesn't stop that interpretation being wrong.
#2820 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
Except that we established at the start of this argument that Always the Victims doesn't fit.
I can't see how you can't understand why we would want to point out that a song very commonly heard at Old Trafford is not about Hillsborough. no ones said that it's not badly timed, no ones said that it's ridiculous to interpret it that way all that's being said is that the offense that Liverpool fans are taking from the song is misplaced.
IF I'M BEING AWKWARD THEN SO ARE YOU FOR CONSISTENTLY IGNORING THIS POINT.
#2817 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
Well it's always going to be a circular argument when neither side is going to budge from their position, I don't see how inanely posting gifs is going to help that.
#2814 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
So why aren't you complaining about the chant of 'murderers' as opposed to 'Always the Victim'?
Surely that would be the story here rather than stretching it's always the victim to fit?
#2803 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
Yes, but you're pretty conveniently ignoring the fact that any offence is coming form a deliberate misinterpretation.
The link to Hillsborough is tenuous, but you're making it sound like we were signing about pissing on the graves of the 96.
#2796 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
I think the distinction he's making is that it's only being interpreted as a Hillsborough song now because the media want a story that United fans are singing about it.
The fact it's been sung for nearly a year, by Everton fans as well, and until this week no one has been offended by it should tell you where this story ends.
I mean take a comment from BBC's Sportsday: Danny Harper on Twitter: "Four-match ban for Terry & eight-match ban for Suarez. Is the FA going to explain why? Ah yes Evra is a Utd player! I get it now!"
It's hardly an atypical example of the sort of nonsense some Liverpool fans believe, and that your club is fairly willing to intimate, and thats why the song was made in the wake of the Suarez affair.
I just think it's a stretch to intimate it's a Hillsborough song, and think people are only looking for that interpretation now because they want to be offended.
#2622 English Premier League 2012/2013
Ninja
Nah it clearly is a reference to the self pity City myth and the perceived victim mentality that Liverpool fans have. It's clearly a reference to conspiracy theories, Rafa's facts and yes at it's grubbier ends of that reputation Heysel and, formerly Hillsborough admittedly.
It was sung last year at Anfield and not one problem was raised with the song, even Dalglish who is surely one of the most likely to be sensitive to and have issues with Hillsborough chanting (given the work he's done with the families since and his proximity to it) specifically said there was 'no issue' with anything either set of fans did that day.
I agree with everyone saying the timing of it was off, and it certainly was at Wigan, but Evra was once again abused for reporting what he perceived to be racist abuse (and whatever you want to argue Suarez was trying to say is irrelevant to the point, it clearly was interpreted as racist by Evra and thus reported), I hardly think its fair on one hand to say 'It's ok that Liverpool fans haven't let this issue drop' but on the other hand saying 'United fans aren't allowed to sing about this issue, because the media has changed the meaning of a song after the fact and now it offends us'.
Now, both sides were guilty of provocation, notably 'Where's your famous Munich chant?' from our side and the booing of Evra and plane gestures from some on your side, and I don't think you can take what either fanbase did or sung in isolation and be offended by it without looking at the circumstances from Sunday that led to those actions.