FM25 will be a NEW game. Unity and all.

Well, I haven't heard anything about kits (or other graphics) in FM25. 

If FM25 would otherwise be an enjoyable game, it would be great to have larger coverage of kits earlier - and not multiple top league kitpacks…

So, could kit makers make some plans for co-operation? Also with others than from Sortitoutsi?

until further information on the game engine and whether kits will be able to be added into FM 25 it is hard to plan. 

There is collaboration work going on it the background between kit makers and different sites but we have also found that there has been a significant decrease in the number of kit makers over the last couple of years, whether this is because people do not feel valued on the site, feel like they are being put under too much pressure or too much is demanded of them, dont have any free time available to make kits, change of personal circumstances meaning kit making is no longer possible. 

Please remember all graphics made on the site are made by people who choose to make them as a hobby and they gain no monitary reward from making the kits, so it is up to the kit makers to make the kits as and when they can. 

Sure. But if SI still relies on mod makers (like they have done), then we will know some day.

That is why co-operation would be even more important.

I know. I have made a few myself (with KitCreator). Mostly for myself, but they were also downloadable.

I think that “rules” here for official kits are too strict. Like me, I didn't have templates for those REAL kits of REAL teams, and so

I put those kits into ‘other graphics’ section. And KitCreator I could still use, but PhotoShop… no.

For me it's enough when those kits look good, they don't have to be perfect.

Hey thanks for taking the time to post, of course we're always open and keen for more co-operation, easier lives for creators and more kits being available for downloaders.

However simply saying co-operate more is a bit vague and it tends to be alot more complex than that.

I'm also not 100% what you have in mind, it seems like you mostly mean that we should be more accepting of auto generated kits, which many creators find inferior to the real thing. Unfortunately that's a debate that has already raged for a long time and most people don't seem too keen to change their minds.

I'm also not totally sure what you mean about working with other sites, are there SS kits on other sites that aren't available here? If so can you be more specific?

Yes, it would be easier, if we would know what decisions developers have made. Especially with graphics.

Here I have just wondered if there could be a way to get more kit makers.

I know that there are makers of FC'12 kits. They have a lot of 2D kits. Co-operation with them?

KitCreator is a fine tool to make kits, but not perfect. These are examples of what I made two years ago.

Some of those aren't exactly “official”, because there just wasn't every collar or pattern in KitCreator…

But, with KitCreator it's quite easy to make decent looking kits, and so - would it be OK to allow them? And it makes both 2D and 3D kits…

And, of course, there could (should) be some kind of quality control.

Or is there any other decent, easy to use 3D kit designer tool with a pack of new templates?

At least I find it quite nice to work with What You See Is What You Get. There might be also others.

I am a little confused are you referring to SS kit style or are you talking about 3D kits?

The reason I ask is that you mention FC'12 style kits and co-operation with the team that work on these but these are a different style of kits and there is a seperate section on the forum where all users can choose to download those kits should they wish. They choose not to release all their kits as a mega pack but they too do not make 3D kits, there are only a handful of kit makers that make both 2D and 3D due to the amount of time it takes to make both sets of kits. 

If people upload a league pack made solely in one of the 3D kit maker apps as long as they are good enough quality we would be happy for them to be released. We do find that 2D kits made on the kit maker apps are often blurry and out of proportion but are happy for people to submit them and they will be moderated and if they are good enough quality will likely be accepted. 

I dont know if @Footygamer  wants to add anything else. 

2D or 3D? Both. As mentioned, I have used KitCreator, and it makes both of them.

And because FM starts to use Unity, will it make 3D kits to be even more “important”?

And, as you said, that those 2D kits can be blurry - isn't there anything to do to the app to get them better? To be good enough?

For me kit style hasn't been any issue. I use them mixed. Better any style kit than vanilla…

Well, I don't have anything more to say.

Thanks.

it is possible that the kit creating apps such as Kitcreator will be developed in the future to bring them closer to those people use photoshop to create. 

I have used kit creator myself to make 3D kits, the blurryness is just my personal option and I fully appreciate your opinions you have raised in this thread and have made the other staff members aware of this thread so we will work on some ideas on how things can be further improved, we do not know what Sports Interactive have planned for the upcoming game and to what extent it will be possible to add mods to the game. If you do want to create any SS & 3D kits and upload them then please feel free to. We are happy for as many people as possible to create and share kits and hopefully develop a large team of kit makers. 

They are for good reasons not official and in my opinion it is good that it is rated like this. I prefer quality over quantity. If you or anyone else likes to add “not official” quantity, it is up to you to add it. But what comes out of the kitcreator is not ss-style and personally I don't like it at all. Some 3d kits are quite OK or even good. But in the end it is a tool which offends some creators as it is a more low quality way to offer graphics. See, you need some time to do kits, especially when you do 2D and 3D together and then there is this thread started from a guy which uses this tool, has no idea about Photoshop (no offense) and starts to complain about stuff he barely touches to win the heart of (sorry to call it like that) real creators. I guess this is not a good idea and I know it was not meant like that, but think about your words. 

By the way, why should there always be a more easy solution? Making kits with Photoshop may be a little tricky at first, but everything is up a personal will to get in touch and learn. 

I do too. I would have dumped my kits, if there had been better ones. I also prefer decent kits over vanilla ones.

Again, agreed.

Yes. There were no Finnish kits, so I tried to make some. To have even decent ones.

Yes, absolutely. I have not used Photoshop, ever. But, me complaining - no.

Somewhere I saw a posting, where it was said that there are not as many kit creators as there used to be.

I just thought if there could be any way to get more people to try making kits. First easier tool, and only then possibly PhotoShop.

My idea with KitCreator (or whatever app) is that there could be a guidebook how to prevent kits becoming blurry, aso. 

And maybe there could be something adjustable in the app itself. And still use quality control.

Still they wouldn't be as good as PhotoShop ones, but…

I never wanted to be unpolite.

Thanks for all those kits you have made. They are great.

Yeah, unfortunately it declined. As far as I know the reasons are quite different and difficult to solve at all. 

First easier tool is not a good idea to keep the quality and keep the creators. Some are very let's say proud of their content and don't want such as a kitcreator to take place at all. It is like digital artists and AI. Why waste time when there is a tool which replaces my work and even in a lower quality way and people even cheer about. I hope you get the point. Why did you step back from Photoshop? You have templates and creators to ask. We already work together, share and help each other. You just need to ask and have to have a little effort. Everybody here just started once. 

I know, I got your base point, I just don't agree with the path. 

I have never used PhotoShop. I know that there's GIMP, but I haven't done anything with it either.

For me the main reason was that there just weren't that much Finnish kits around, so…  And those kits were only for me.

Sorry, I should have asked this question in some other forum in the first place.

Spot on buddy. Of course there's no way yet that creators can confirm what add-ons can be made for FM25, as it's a completely new platform. Also, I fully endorse your comments about the pressures and time constraints with creators and rebuke some posts myself. I also think it's perfectly reasonable that creators, especially those whose work demands many hours of their time, to request a voluntary renumeration for their creations. I'm more than happy, as I already do, to reward any work that takes FM to a higher level of immersion.