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Telegram Sam

16 years ago

1 month ago

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04 Mar 2013 01:01:32

By ShortSharpShock | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 00:51 AM

Let's not open that debate in here!!

In the Manchester United thread?

It's completely subjective, anyway, and I think supporters leaning either way would accept they weren't too far apart in their prime.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 10:49:37

Gerrard played most of his prime out of position in the Benitez era and single-handedly won the Champion's League.

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 16:00:06

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 10:49 AM

Gerrard played most of his prime out of position in the Benitez era and single-handedly won the Champion's League.

No he didn't.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 16:05:42

They wouldn't have even got out of the group stages if it wasn't for his screamer against Olympiakos, and he was often played wide right.

Telegram Sam

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04 Mar 2013 16:12:25

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 16:05 PM

They wouldn't have even got out of the group stages if it wasn't for his screamer against Olympiakos, and he was often played wide right.

That doesn't mean he won it single-handedly. He was obviously an integral part of that side and probably their most influential player, but their were numerous other players that made big contributions during their run.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 16:34:30

You guys have heard of figures of speech, right?

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 16:59:33

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 16:34 PM

You guys have heard of figures of speech, right?

Doesn't make you any less wrong.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 17:01:56

So you don't think Steven Gerrard was of such importance to Liverpool during their 2005 Champion's League campaign that it would be appropriate to use the phrase 'single-handedly won'? Given that he was man of the match in the final and without his piece of individual brilliance they wouldn't have even got out of the group stages, what actual evidence do you have to suggest that I am wrong?

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 17:30:52

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 17:01 PM

So you don't think Steven Gerrard was of such importance to Liverpool during their 2005 Champion's League campaign that it would be appropriate to use the phrase 'single-handedly won'? Given that he was man of the match in the final and without his piece of individual brilliance they wouldn't have even got out of the group stages, what actual evidence do you have to suggest that I am wrong?

The fact there was 11 people on the pitch.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 17:32:29

So you don't know what a figure of a speech is, fantastic.

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 19:35:46

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 17:32 PM

So you don't know what a figure of a speech is, fantastic.

I do but as I said, it does not make you any less wrong. Your poor attempt at a withering putdown just shows you up again for the millionth time.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 19:58:10

No, you just don't know how to argue. If you move on from the point about semantics, and you still think I'm wrong, you have to prove otherwise by either asserting that Gerrard wasn't as important to the 2005 Champion's League campaign as many believe he was, or that another Liverpool player was even more influential. You can't get round this issue with ad hominem arguments.

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 20:08:04

By Jaygull | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 19:58 PM

No, you just don't know how to argue. If you move on from the point about semantics, and you still think I'm wrong, you have to prove otherwise by either asserting that Gerrard wasn't as important to the 2005 Champion's League campaign as many believe he was, or that another Liverpool player was even more influential. You can't get round this issue with ad hominem arguments.

No I do not. Gerrard literally did not win anything singlehandedly as that is literally impossible in a team sport. Nice attempt at a fallacy fallacy though. You argued wrong and tried to blame someone else. I have not actually entered into ad hominem territory though. You have the burden of proof though as you made the claim, so prove it.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 20:17:25

By Obtuse | Permalink | On 04 March 2013 - 20:08 PM

No I do not. Gerrard literally did not win anything singlehandedly as that is literally impossible in a team sport. Nice attempt at a fallacy fallacy though. You argued wrong and tried to blame someone else. I have not actually entered into ad hominem territory though. You have the burden of proof though as you made the claim, so prove it.

When something 'is so funny you piss your pants', do you think people actually mean that they laughed until they urinate? Do you think when people say 'turn a phrase', that they are spinning an actual thing in another direction? It is patently obvious that you cannot win something single-handedly in a team sport, because it's a turn of phrase. Telegram Sam is clearly capable of understanding that and has moved on from this. Implying that I have showed myself up without proof is an ad hominem attack, just so you know.

I have already said that without Gerrard's really, really famous goal against Olympiakos that Liverpool would have gone out in the group stages. He also scored in the final and everybody under the sun knows that over the 2005 campaign he was superb in Europe- he even won a CBE because of it ffs. Now, if you want to return to the original argument between Gerrard v Lampard and argue that Lampard achieved more over his career, then that would begin an actual debate. If you want to argue that Liverpool would have won the Champion's League without Gerrard's specific influence, including if Gerrard wasn't on the pitch for that really, really famous Olympiakos goal, then by all means. Bring out some hipster statistics about Dietmar Hamann's successful tackling percentages, or argue that Carragher and Hyypia's defending was the most influential factor.

I must stress this again- it is obvious that 'winning something single-handedly' is a figure of speech. For example, you might say 'Bale is single-handedly dragging Tottenham into the Champion's League position' and everyone with half a brain will be able to relay what you mean.

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

04 Mar 2013 20:46:03

You can't grasp the simple logic can you? We know it is a figure of speech but it is still wrong.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 20:49:20

So you don't think Gerrard was the most influential player in Liverpool's 2005 European campaign?

VP.

14 years ago

7 hours ago

25,274

04 Mar 2013 20:53:39

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-E9XlXx88wvk/ToNeLJI5m4I/AAAAAAAABLk/fxvjry0VoxA/s1600/god_please_make_it_stop.jpg

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 20:56:05

Fair enough.

Let's talk tomorrow then- scoreline predictions?

VP.

14 years ago

7 hours ago

25,274

04 Mar 2013 21:03:44

I think Madrid will win, maybe on away goals though.

Ninja

15 years ago

7 years ago

5,341

04 Mar 2013 21:14:45

We're undefeated at home in the knockout stage going back to like 2007 and won all but one game.

Although Real Madrid are capable of breaking that run, it should be very difficult for them.

1-0 United I reckon, early goal and then defend for 80 minutes.

Sam

18 years ago

2 years ago

5,092

04 Mar 2013 21:17:40

I think we will win it. I'm incredibly nervous though. And excited of course.

It's going to be an amazing match.

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

2 years ago

841

04 Mar 2013 21:18:16

I reckon it will be an emotional late-winner for United, maybe a 2-1, or a 3-2.

Obtuse

16 years ago

4 years ago

1,338

05 Mar 2013 00:07:59

4-1 for Madrid

Jamieandhisego

18 years ago

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841

05 Mar 2013 00:19:56

By Obtuse | Permalink | On 05 March 2013 - 00:07 AM

4-1 for Madrid

I really hope not.

Telegram Sam

16 years ago

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05 Mar 2013 00:41:27

2-2, Madrid go through on away goals.

K3V0

16 years ago

2 years ago

5,966

05 Mar 2013 06:14:16

Penalties to decide this one.

Sam

18 years ago

2 years ago

5,092

05 Mar 2013 10:13:26

"People ask me why I don't retire after so many years in the game but how could anyone with an ounce of passion for football in their soul voluntarily walk away from the opportunity to be involved in this type of occasion?"

Dutton

18 years ago

1 year ago

1,101

07 Mar 2013 09:06:43

Manchester United will consider the sale of Wayne Rooney in the summer for a fee of around £35 million, ESPN understands.

An Old Trafford source said that any prospective transfer was dependent on a "complicated chain of events", but one that could also see Cristiano Ronaldo end up back at the club.

With Rooney controversially demoted to the bench and the Portuguese not ruling out a return to United, Wednesday night’s Champions League clash between United and Real Madrid was dripping with transfer subplots.

It is known, however, that the Premier League leaders are actively looking into a way to bring Ronaldo back, and that there was more to Sir Alex Ferguson’s decision to drop Rooney than tactics or any injury concerns.

The United manager is understood to have scolded the England international about his fitness at the start of the season - the latest of a number of flashpoints between them since Rooney attempted to force his way out in October 2010.

Despite the now famous photos of Ferguson and his player smiling after a new deal had been signed at that time, their relationship has never fully healed. They also clashed at Christmas 2011, with the manager reportedly dropping Rooney for a Premier League fixture against Blackburn Rovers for disciplinary reasons.

This season has also marked the first time in three years that Rooney has not been the undisputed focal point of the team, after the arrival of Robin van Persie.

In that time, however, United had informal talks with Real Madrid over the prospective transfer of Rooney, but the Spanish club have no wish to purchase him at present. So far, the only club to have expressed an interest are Paris Saint-Germain - as reported by the Times a week ago.

It is unknown, however, whether Rooney himself would want to go to the French capital or even leave United at all. As such, given that they would also have to find a high-profile replacement, United are treading carefully and his departure is by no means certain.

It had been floated that Rooney could be used in some kind of part-exchange deal for Ronaldo but, with Real not interested at present, United may seek to offer Nani and cash for the Portuguese star.

Although there is now a willingness on both sides - United and Ronaldo - to bring the forward back to Old Trafford, there are a number of complications - not least the financing of such a deal.

United, meanwhile, retain an interest in Borussia Dortmund’s Robert Lewandowski as a direct replacement for Rooney. The Poland forward is expected to join Bayern Munich, but that deal is far from done and the Red Devils are continuing to monitor the situation.

bluemoon.

18 years ago

4 months ago

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07 Mar 2013 09:17:19

Makes sense, he's not worth the wages and now you've got RVP you don't really need him.

Dutton

18 years ago

1 year ago

1,101

07 Mar 2013 09:24:43

As long as the money is used towards bringing in Ronaldo/Bale (which I'm not really convinced could happen) then I'm all for it. I don't really see where he could go though, I don't think he'd fancy PSG, Real and Barca don't need him. Bayern?

REPLACE HIM WITH SUAREZ \o/

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