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Discussion
By Telegram Sam | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 17:50 PM
Gerrard was one of our best players in the Euros and his lack of pace isn't as exposed in the middle of the park as much as it would be in the heart of the defence. Also, as Gary Neville pointed out, Ferdinand's not been a first-team regular for years and there's little to be gained from bringing him back when he isn't going to first choice. Gerrard's also not had the chronic injury problems that Rio's had over the past few seasons.

John Terry is slower than Ferdinand and has the turning circle of a coach so lack of pace is irrelevant.

I agree with what Neville said, he hasn't played for England and will be too old by the next world cup, but so will Gerrard and Lamard and I just think Roy has handled it badly.

The last bit is just totally wrong. Gerrard has been injured far more than Rio, he played 52 games over 2010/11 and 2011/12, Rio played 67.
By jumberto | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 18:13 PM
John Terry is slower than Ferdinand and has the turning circle of a coach so lack of pace is irrelevant.

I agree with what Neville said, he hasn't played for England and will be too old by the next world cup, but so will Gerrard and Lamard and I just think Roy has handled it badly.

The last bit is just totally wrong. Gerrard has been injured far more than Rio, he played 52 games over 2010/11 and 2011/12, Rio played 67.

Fair enough, I was wrong on that last part. What I said before had nothing to do with Terry though, and I wouldn't have supported his inclusion if he hadn't retired and was selected for this squad.
By Ninja | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 18:09 PM
As for Gerrard, I really think he's going to be affected by his declining physical prowess in the next few years. He was never a great passer of the ball, even if he bizarrely compares himself to Paul Scholes, but he was a world class player because of his drive, his ability to drag a team by it's shoulders kicking and screaming to some kind of improvement and his impact at both ends of the pitch. I don't think he'll be able to get around the pitch as much as he gets older, and I don't really think he's got enough technically to compensate when he can't cut it physically any more.


Gerrard is a great passer of the ball, or at least as good as any other English midfielder currently in my humble opinion. Although I think he's mainly in the team because he's a leader on the pitch and a good experienced head to have in the squad. Plus he's still capable of doing special things every now and again, and he adds goals and good set piece delivery to the team.
By Abbott | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 18:48 PM
Gerrard is a great passer of the ball, or at least as good as any other English midfielder currently in my humble opinion. Although I think he's mainly in the team because he's a leader on the pitch and a good experienced head to have in the squad. Plus he's still capable of doing special things every now and again, and he adds goals and good set piece delivery to the team.

That bit is true and I think he deserves to be in the squad on that merit. You can't seriously think Gerrard is as good a passer as Scholes, that's insane. He's got great technical ability so he is capable of making a great pass but he gives the ball away far too often to be considered a great passer IMO.

«This comment has been edited»
Gerrard has been poor for quite a while now.
By Abbott | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 18:48 PM
Gerrard is a great passer of the ball, or at least as good as any other English midfielder currently in my humble opinion. Although I think he's mainly in the team because he's a leader on the pitch and a good experienced head to have in the squad. Plus he's still capable of doing special things every now and again, and he adds goals and good set piece delivery to the team.

I don't agree.

I think Gerrard is a player who is capable of playing great passes rather than a great passer.

To be fair the bolded is the exact argument made for Beckham a while back, and I don't think many people would argue he was missed when he did eventually stop being picked for England.

I'm not saying he currently shouldn't be in the squad, and I probably would have him over the other older players such as Ferdinand and Lampard purely to act as an experienced head as the squad is effectively handed over from his generation to the next, but I don't really think he's going to be a player playing in to his later 30s and I don't think he's going to be doing that for England.

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By Ninja | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 17:38 PM
I agree.

Rio has nothing to offer England long term, absolutely no point him being in the team.

I would, however, argue the same for Steven Gerrard who will be 34 by the next World Cup and whose form is dipping alarmingly quickly and Lampard who will be 35 or 36.

But if Hodgson is going to include both of them, then he has no argument not to include Ferdinand.


Summed up well.

Rio definitely shouldn't go up if asked as the FA/Hodgson treat him like crap, from the drug ban to being left out for 'footballing reasons' which was utter bullshit.

Maybe he doesn't have anything to offer long term, but he has been playing far better than the other defenders that were called up, if Hodgson was honest it wouldn't be such a big issue.
By Ninja | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 17:38 PM
I agree.

Rio has nothing to offer England long term, absolutely no point him being in the team.

I would, however, argue the same for Steven Gerrard who will be 34 by the next World Cup and whose form is dipping alarmingly quickly and Lampard who will be 35 or 36.

But if Hodgson is going to include both of them, then he has no argument not to include Ferdinand.

England have good options at centre half, that's what does Rio no real favours. So him not being in the squad isn't that huge of a loss (more so when he's not featured much as it is), hence no real benefit in him being there.

The England midfield is a another story though, there isn't that depth or quality just yet, so the likes of Gerrard and Lampard are still going to be in with a shout, even in their advanced years. Wilshire will push both, but he's also missed a lot of football and needs to get back to playing well again for Arsenal before being considered for England. Beyond him, there really isn't many stand out options.
By Sam | Permalink | On 06 October 2012 - 00:12 AM
Summed up well.

Rio definitely shouldn't go up if asked as the FA/Hodgson treat him like crap, from the drug ban to being left out for 'footballing reasons' which was utter bullshit.

Maybe he doesn't have anything to offer long term, but he has been playing far better than the other defenders that were called up, if Hodgson was honest it wouldn't be such a big issue.

You can believe what you want but you can't say without any reasonable doubt that Ferdinand would definitely have gone to the Euros if it wasn't for the John Terry affair. It's likely that the affair made it impossible for Terry and Ferdinand to play together, but it really isn't that unreasonable to assume Rio wouldn't have been in the side regardless. He was out of favour whilst Capello was still in charge.
By jumberto | Permalink | On 05 October 2012 - 18:55 PM
That bit is true and I think he deserves to be in the squad on that merit. You can't seriously think Gerrard is as good a passer as Scholes, that's insane. He's got great technical ability so he is capable of making a great pass but he gives the ball away far too often to be considered a great passer IMO.


Well obviously Scholes is the exception, but he doesn't play for England anymore.
You didn't say active internationals, but fair enough. I still don't agree though.
Both Carrick and Wilshere are easily better passers of the ball than Gerrard.
Erm, FIFA World Cup 2002 Gerrard had the passing special skill, which meant his passes left a white trail behind them. I don't see Carrick or Wilshere's passes leaving any white trails.
By Jaygull | Permalink | On 06 October 2012 - 13:42 PM
Both Carrick and Wilshere are easily better passers of the ball than Gerrard.

Wilshere's been out for 14 months. Tough to say how good he's going to be again until he's played a decent handful of games.
Ferguson said: 'He (De Gea) was excellent, he is an outstanding goalkeeper, the young lad, he is getting better all the time.

'I don't know whether I should play him on Sunday or not but the way we have been doing it in the last few weeks has worked quite well for us.

'Everybody wants to play, goalkeepers are no different, but the way I look at it at the moment is getting the two of them experience will help me in the long term.

'Obviously at some stage one of them will take over if he shows a real consistency in top-level performance and he has shown a maturity.

'At the moment neither of them have got that big-game experience. They will get that in time.'

He's really doing my head in at the moment. How he thinks rotating keepers is 'working quite well for us' or that David De Gea doesn't have 'big game experience' is anyone's guess.
By jumberto | Permalink | On 06 October 2012 - 11:47 AM
You didn't say active internationals, but fair enough. I still don't agree though.


When playing Hodgson-ball the quality of passing is kinda irrelevant anyway.


Manchester United's Ryan Tunnicliffe on drink-drive charge

Manchester United midfielder Ryan Tunnicliffe has been charged with drink-driving after a car collided with a van in Greater Manchester.

Mr Tunnicliffe, 19, of Clemshaw Close, Heywood, near Rochdale, was arrested after the crash on Saturday afternoon.

Police said a Range Rover collided with a van in Green Lane, Heywood. The van then collided with the wall of a house.

Mr Tunnicliffe was charged with driving with excess alcohol, Greater Manchester Police said.

He is due to appear at Bury Magistrates Court on 25 October.

Officers said the front seat passenger of the Range Rover suffered a minor whiplash injury in the collision and both vehicles were badly damaged.

The midfielder made his Manchester United debut against Newcastle United in the Capital One Cup last month. He was on loan to Peterborough United last season.
http://i.imgur.com/nSg30EZ.gif
What an idiot.
Any guesses on how Fergie will 'deal with' Rio?

I can imagine he's not just unhappy, he's fuming.
I don't really see what reason he had for wading in about Jason Roberts yesterday anyway. I assume he was asked if Rio would be following suit but he made a bit of a personal attack on Roberts when it wasn't really warranted. It seems like he could be creating a problem with a player he wants rid of just to make it easier to move him on. There were already rumours that Rio and Anton would not wear the t-shirt beforehand and now Fergie's apoplectic that he's been 'embarrassed' by his player. I see SAF's initial point but he can't tell Ferdinand how to feel about racism and Kick It Out in view of what's happened and should really support him.

One theory is that Ashley Cole is on his way here and Fergie will have to get rid of Rio in order for that to happen. Not sure what I make of that though.

Apparently, Lescott didn't wear a KIO t-shirt either.

«This comment has been edited»
This is just Fergie being a twat. Rio's well within his rights not to wear it.
Rio has the right to do what he wants. Fergie is wrong in criticising him, but he's trying to show he's the boss, and after saying what he said Friday Rio has done the opposite. Despite he has every right to.

I've read about the Ashley Cole theory, stranger things have happened. I think Fergie is trying to get rid of him.

I think the City players are wearing the KIO shirts next weekend? Chelsea too? Not sure.
By Sam | Permalink | On 20 October 2012 - 20:33 PM
I think the City players are wearing the KIO shirts next weekend? Chelsea too? Not sure.


Yep, City waiting til the home game
http://i.imgur.com/nSg30EZ.gif
A racist not wearing an anti-racism shirt? Shocking.
This is great, then we've got people getting angry about poppies next month.
By jumberto | Permalink | On 20 October 2012 - 20:09 PM
I don't really see what reason he had for wading in about Jason Roberts yesterday anyway. I assume he was asked if Rio would be following suit but he made a bit of a personal attack on Roberts when it wasn't really warranted. It seems like he could be creating a problem with a player he wants rid of just to make it easier to move him on. There were already rumours that Rio and Anton would not wear the t-shirt beforehand and now Fergie's apoplectic that he's been 'embarrassed' by his player. I see SAF's initial point but he can't tell Ferdinand how to feel about racism and Kick It Out in view of what's happened and should really support him.

One theory is that Ashley Cole is on his way here and Fergie will have to get rid of Rio in order for that to happen. Not sure what I make of that though.

Apparently, Lescott didn't wear a KIO t-shirt either.

Fergie is embarrassed because he said that all of his players would wear the shirt prior the game, Rio included. Then Rio rocks up and doesn't wear it, hence making Fergie look like a twit for making the aforementioned comment. That's why Fergie is annoyed at Rio, who will no doubt cop some sort of punishment for it.

Lescott hasn't worn the shirt for years after Emre's unpunished racism towards Yobo during his Everton days.
Apparently Rio's being fined two weeks wages.

Ridiculous. I know Fergie sees a threat to his authority, but two weeks wages (the same amount Terry got fined) is silly.

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Absolute joke.

Kinda hope Ferdinand appeals that, even though it would undermine Fergie's authority there is no way thats on.
I personally think it is an absolute disgrace that Ferguson is able to dish out fine based on a difference of opinion to his own.
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